Episode 38

full
Published on:

3rd Nov 2025

Punches, Pivots & Packaging

Welcome to Breaking Down Boxes. We have compelling conversations with entrepreneurs in the packaging space.

In this episode we talk with Paul Centenari of Atlas Container.

Paul shares the unconventional journey that took him from the boxing ring to the boardroom. With humor and honesty, he recalls early lessons from the ring, the risks that built Atlas Container, and the “can-do” culture that continues to drive its success. Listeners will hear how resilience, learning, and strong leadership transformed a leveraged buyout into a thriving independent packaging business.

About Paul

Paul Centenari is the President and CEO of Atlas Container, based in Maryland, and an Adjunct Professor of Entrepreneurship at Georgetown University. A graduate of Dartmouth College and Harvard Business School, Paul’s path to leadership has been anything but ordinary—he was quarterback at Wellesley High, a Golden Gloves boxer, and later a Procter & Gamble salesman before entering manufacturing.

Over the past 37 years, he has led Atlas through the acquisition and operation of 19 corrugated box companies along the East Coast, consolidating into two facilities totaling nearly 400,000 square feet in Severn and Curtis Bay, Maryland, and growing revenue fifteenfold.

Married for 35 years to Elizabeth McDavitt, a talent agent for models and actors, with two grown daughters Paul stresses the importance of family. He is also an avid athlete and adventurer. Paul has heli-skied in the Canadian Rockies for 25 years and completed the 4.5-mile Chesapeake Bay Swim eight times, along with three Alcatraz crossings.

About Atlas Container

New episodes drop the first Monday of every month. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe!

This podcast is brought to you by AICC, The Independent Packaging Association. Learn more at www.AICCbox.org. When you invest and engage, AICC delivers success.

Breaking Down Boxes is sponsored by Ox Box, offering strength you can depend on.

Transcript
Paul:

I went to work for Procter Gamble, selling soap after.

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college and the Back

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rooms of

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supermarkets, which was another humbling

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experience, but learned

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how to sell

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Went back to

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Business school

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in Boston.

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Harvard.

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And then

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after that went into investment banking.

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I got

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fired after 10 months for being

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an asshole.

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'cause I thought they were looking for

assholes, you know, investment bank.

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I

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mean,

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And I

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misread the culture.

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got ass kicked

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And

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then next day called my

brother and said, okay, look.

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Bad news.

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I got fired.

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Good news.

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I've been doing this for

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10 months.

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Let's

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start an investment bank.

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I said, I just need

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your wife's.

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salary 'cause we

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don't have any money.

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Oh.

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So he said, I'll tell you what,

instead of sending you money,

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you send,

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me the bills.

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And that's how we got started.

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And did that for two

and a half, three years.

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And decided we

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didn't really like.

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the business.

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Wanted

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to make something.

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Manufacturing was calling.

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We looked at a lot of industries.

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and

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We ended up liking this one

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a lot.

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And we

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wrote to four 50 box

companies around the country.

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Went to visit a couple dozen and ended

up buying a business in Baltimore.

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Jeff: Thanksgiving's almost here.

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That time of year when we gather

with family, eat way too much pie.

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and Try not to drop the heavy

Turkey on the kitchen floor.

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George: And speaking of heavy lifting,

when it comes to packaging the big

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stuff, you need more than a flimsy box.

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You need an ox box

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Jeff: Exactly.

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Ox Box specializes in custom heavy

duty packaging with strength.

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You can depend on strong enough for your

machinery inventory over it came to it

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your leftovers for the whole neighborhood.

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George: You don't just bring

muscle, they move fast.

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It's industrial packaging at

high speed, so your toughest

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packaging challenges don't have to

linger longer than Thanksgiving.

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Dishes in the sink.

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Jeff: This holiday season.

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Be grateful for peace of

mind in your shipping.

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Visit ox box.com.

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George: Ox box is strength

you can depend on.

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Jeff: Okay, George.

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Great to work with you again.

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I'm super excited about today.

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Today we have a great business partner,

but more importantly, a friend.

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Paul Sari, the CEO of Atlas

container A great story that I

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think you'll really enjoy hearing.

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I think he's gonna be able to bring

some fun to the conversation as well.

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So looking forward to that.

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George: Yeah, absolutely.

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It's gonna be a good one.

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Paul, why don't you take a moment

and just introduce yourself and maybe

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give us a bit of a elevator pitch on

your business and what you guys do.

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Paul: Yeah, sure.

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Thanks

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Jeff, by the way.

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You and George, good to see you.

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George: Good to see you.

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Paul: So I am Paul Centra.

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I'm the president

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CEO of Atlas Container

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which makes corrugated

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boxes

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we're located

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right outside of

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Annapolis.

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in Baltimore, in Maryland.

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My brother and I got into this,

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business on a leveraged buyout At the

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end of the

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decade.

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bought the business.

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from the three owners that

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had no place to go.

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They were retiring and bought

it with other people's money.

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Went to

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a bank.

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Never been to Baltimore,

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never Been in the box,

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business, never run a company,

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never

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been in manufacturing.

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Went to

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12 banks.

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To borrow

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The money to buy the business.

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And

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how many of those

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12 banks do you think said yes.

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George: Oh, I'm gonna say none, but

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Jeff: I was gonna say one.

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Paul: 10.

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Jeff: 10 10.

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Paul: We put a good business

plan in front of him

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10, 20 years later,

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Told him he was the best,

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business plan,

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he's ever seen.

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but more importantly,

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he would never have done the deal.

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unless the owners were gonna

stick around for three years.

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And they did.

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They stuck around.

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one died

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before

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we got the deal done.

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The other two stuck

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around for 15 and 25 years respectively

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until they passed.

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We loved those guys, That's how we got

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into the business.

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George: Wow.

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And tell me a little

bit about the business.

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What does it look like today?

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what's your core business?

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Paul: We're a Vince Lombardi block

and tackle Brown right out the middle.

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George: Okay.

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Paul: Yeah, We got some white

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Jeff: great reference.

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I'm a Packer fan, yep,

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Paul: Yep.

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Exactly.

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That's

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right.

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I brought that up.

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business is

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chain You've heard this before.

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you know, We're sheet

plant with a corrugator.

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Okay.

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We've Bought maybe 20 companies.

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in the last 35 years ish.

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And, Maybe messed up,

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half of 'em, people you ask.

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me, So does

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the economy have a lot to do,

with how well you guys do in the

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box

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business?

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And I say, nah,

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My

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brother.

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and I will fuck this thing

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up.

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more than any economy could ever do.

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We've been taking risks,

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and uh,

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you know, , you get beaten up,

get bloodied, but, at the end

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of the day, just keep going.

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at it every day.

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Every day.

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And I think we started with

about 6 million in business

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We'll be over 90 this year.

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And

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We're, we

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keep borrowing money.

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George: right?

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Wow.

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Good for you.

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Jeff: So we gotta back up 'cause

he's got I think, quite the

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interesting story to get him into

ultimately the professional world.

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And he mentioned beaten up and

so you can tell us all, but he's,

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he's a very competitive man.

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But I'd love to hear you tell

the audience a little bit about

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your upbringing, your educational

background your wife and two daughters.

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A little bit about them but

also that sports connection.

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'cause you have

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one hell of a sports

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Paul: I'm glad that you recognize that.

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I grew up in Boston,

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outside of Boston, Wellesley, mass.

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Went to

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public high

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school

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and then

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I was recruited

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to

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play football at

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Dartmouth

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I was a quarterback.

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And

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13 quarterbacks showed up.

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for practice.

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I Ended

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up being

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the number three.

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the

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guy

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who Turned out to be my

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best friend in college after I hated him

was the Ivy League player of the year

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and became

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Dartmouth's Most.

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winning coach.

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And then tragically a couple.

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years ago, he was hit by a truck.

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On his

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bike.

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So we lost him.

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But

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Went to Dartmouth and

then, after I quit football

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I started fighting

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Well, Bars.

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and hotels, restaurants,

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Jeff: didn't go right to Golden gloves.

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You got a Little pre-game Warm

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up there.

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Yeah.

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Paul: And then I ended up fighting in the

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Golden Gloves in

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Lowell, mass, by the way.

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That's where the movie

with Mark Wahlberg A

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Fighter,

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George: what weight class were you

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Paul: in?

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I went between Middleweight

light heavy, so 1 60.

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65

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to 1 78.

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And it was a great experience for me.

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Had a Lot of fun.

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Won some, lost some, got my

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ass kicked, Which is always good, I think.

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Keep

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you humble.

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And then

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I went to work for Procter

Gamble, selling soap after.

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college and the Back

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rooms of

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supermarkets, which was another humbling

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experience, but learned

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how to sell Because they're

a phenomenal business.

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Went back to

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Business school

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in Boston.

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Harvard.

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And then

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after that went into investment banking.

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I got

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fired after 10 months for being

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an asshole.

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'cause I thought they were looking for

assholes, you know, investment bank.

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I

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mean, You were Street?

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No, I was in Denver.

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Okay.

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Moved out to Denver.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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That's it.

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That's a good question Because in

Denver they weren't looking for pricks.

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like they do

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on Wall Street.

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And I

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misread the culture.

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got ass kicked

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And

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then next day called my

brother and said, okay, look.

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Bad news.

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I got fired.

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Good news.

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I've been doing this for

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10 months.

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Let's

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start an investment bank.

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So we

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did.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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That's

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wild.

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I just said, I just need

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your wife's.

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salary 'cause we

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don't have any money.

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Oh.

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So he said, I'll tell you what,

instead of sending you money,

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you send,

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me the bills.

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And that's how we got started.

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And did that for two

and a half, three years.

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And decided we

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didn't really like.

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the business.

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Yeah.

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Wanted

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to make something.

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Manufacturing was calling.

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We looked at a lot of industries.

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and

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We ended up liking this one

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a lot.

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Low tech unskilled Labor.

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fundamentally

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undermanaged under

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marketed

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That's kind of an overstatement.

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I don't think it is,

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but Regional.

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Yeah.

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mundane, product disposable.

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Go

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back to the same customers.

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and we

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wrote to four 50 box

companies around the country.

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Went to visit a couple dozen and ended

up buying a business in Baltimore.

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George: So you went from the

soap man to the box, man,

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Paul: I went from boxing to soap to boxes.

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George: There you go.

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Jeff: So when you buy this

business in Baltimore, where

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are you living at that time?

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Denver.

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You were in Denver.

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Paul: then we moved to Baltimore.

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Jeff: How about your brother Peter?

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Paul: we were living in Denver together.

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Okay.

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In the same

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zip

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code.

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Yeah.

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George: Wow.

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So your brother, Pete,

is he your only sibling

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Paul: No, we have a younger sister.

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George: Okay.

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Paul: Peter is my older

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brother.

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Yeah.

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I was telling Jeff earlier that

I'm the older brother in business.

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but he's the older

brother everywhere else.

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George: Yeah.

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Paul: Yeah,

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He tells me what to do.

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All the time

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George: since you were

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Paul: safe.

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Yeah.

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Jeff: Doesn't sound like

you listen that often.

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Paul: Yeah.

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I wasn't, I'm not that good,

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at listening when He tells me something,

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to do but,

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I listen because

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it's usually around safety or diet.

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Exercise,

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fun, life.

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All good stuff.

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George: Did

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you ever box him?

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Yeah.

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When you were a

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Paul: kid?

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I did.

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George: Who and who would win?

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Paul: I think we would trade

when we were little kids.

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Okay.

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And

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Then I started really doing it.

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Yeah.

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he was doing,

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karate,

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So when we got in the

ring, he was trying to.

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kick me and,

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I hit him a couple times and I

felt bad about it 'cause I hit him.

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I hit him hard.

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Oh shit.

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So we never did.

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it again.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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George: Okay.

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But hey listen, boys will

be boys though, right?

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Growing

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Paul: up.

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Boys will be

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boys.

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man.

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we had a

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lot of fun doing a lot of crazy

things, in the neighborhood.

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right?

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We all had The neighborhood.

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George: Did you play a

lot of sports too growing

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Paul: up?

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We

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My father was a pole vaulter.

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He grew up in Italy.

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Okay.

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And

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Jeff: may I ask what part of Italy,

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Paul: Venice,

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Nice.

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Yeah.

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And,

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My mother's family,

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grew up in Ireland

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county, Sligo, but yeah.

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No, we played 'em all.

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Hockey in the winter

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On the ponds and water skiing, skiing,

. Has become a big sport of ours.

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Jeff: A lot of the successful

leaders we meet in this industry

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and outside of it, Sports played a

big role in their upbringing, but

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also just in their approach to the

team approach to running a business.

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But the competitive nature.

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And

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you almost, when you're interviewing

find that as an advantage.

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Yeah.

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So has that transferred for

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Paul: you?

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Oh my god.

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I don't know if I would've,

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made it in this

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business without

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my experiences in

football and other sports,

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Football you know,

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I had good years, but

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I had bad years, and

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I learned a lot more from

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the bad years, a lot more.

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Never give up.

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Just keep working it,

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At some point you.

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gotta make a Decision, which I did

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and I pivoted,

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and,

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Just kept going at

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it.

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And in

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spite of the losses, the

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heavy losses, the victories, I attribute

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a Lot of the success,

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that we've had,

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to that resilience that

I got playing games

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right?

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Playing tough.

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Jeff: didn't carry over as

much in investment banking.

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But when you get into the box

business, it probably was front

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and center in your approach

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to the

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Paul: yeah.

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I think

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Jeff: Working hard, being someone

that's, willing to outwork the

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next And if you, like you said,

if you get knocked down, get

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Paul: back

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you gotta get back

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absolutely.

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You gotta, get, 'cause

you gotta get knocked out.

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You're gonna get knocked down.

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George: Paul, when you bought the

business and the people that were

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loaning you the money said, Hey,

listen, you can buy the business, but

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we want the current owners to stay on.

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How important was that, or how helpful

was that for you, coming into a business

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that you didn't know anything about?

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Paul: Oh, it's huge today,

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absolutely,

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huge.

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My brother and I.

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used to walk home.

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And after the

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Two owners would

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predict something and then it happened

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and we'd walk home and

say, how do they do that.

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How'd They do that shit.

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How'd they do that?

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And of course after time you, you

see these things over and over

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again that you, you learn that,

okay, this is what's gonna happen.

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But

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they saved

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our ass a couple of times.

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The first

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acquisition

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that we did

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was two years after.

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We bought.

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the business was

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priced too

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high.

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And the

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bank,

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was not interested in

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doing the deal.

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But I was

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working hard convince the bank.

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And the two owners pulled me aside.

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and they said

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I

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wouldn't do this.

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deal.

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I wouldn't do this deal.

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And

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I should

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Take you back.

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a year when

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We were pricing.

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the National Institute of Health.

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And

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the get one of the owners,

the older of the two, and.

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The one who worked on pricing,

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I said I, why don't you bump those

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3%?

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He goes, I wouldn't do that.

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I said, no, come on.

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Go ahead.

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Just give it a shot.

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He goes, I'm telling

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you.

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And he

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And I said,

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no, come on, do it.

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He Did it And we lost

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the business and we never got it back.

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And I remember thinking, I will

never ever make that mistake again.

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Fast forward two

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years

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we're looking at doing

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this deal.

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They didn't wanna do it.

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And I walked outta the office.

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and I got in the car.

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and I went, God

546

:

damnit, Damn

547

:

I can't do that.

548

:

I can't do it.

549

:

I'd been working on it.

550

:

for a year.

551

:

Yeah.

552

:

And when they said no,

553

:

I remember thinking, I will never

554

:

Get myself in.

555

:

this situation again.

556

:

Ever.

557

:

And they

558

:

did it, they said it and I didn't, want

to, I didn't want to go along with 'em,

559

:

but I knew how bad it felt the first

560

:

Jeff: time.

561

:

Paul: So I

562

:

Called the guy from the car,

563

:

selling

564

:

it and he said I'm sorry, I'm out.

565

:

It was painful

566

:

Two weeks later he called me and says,

okay, look I, won't sell it to you.

567

:

I'll just give it to you.

568

:

Let me come and work

569

:

for you.

570

:

So

571

:

listening

572

:

to

573

:

them was

574

:

Priceless,

575

:

wisdom that I learned

576

:

the hard way,

577

:

And then

578

:

profited later on.

579

:

Jeff: So I was gonna follow up.

580

:

Maybe just take us back a little bit

more to finish about your family,

581

:

or your lovely wife, Elizabeth and

two daughters, They've been a big

582

:

part of this whole journey as well.

583

:

I don't know when you met

Elizabeth, in this process, but

584

:

we'd love to hear a little bit about that

585

:

Paul: Yeah, I met Elizabeth

586

:

in Denver in a bar.

587

:

And

588

:

I knew her mother.

589

:

'cause she

590

:

was the head of an

591

:

acting school that I

was taking lessons at.

592

:

and Elizabeth was

593

:

Working with her.

594

:

mother, at the same place,

so I knew who she was

595

:

And

596

:

that was 1987,

597

:

which was right around the time,

598

:

we started looking for,

599

:

a company to buy.

600

:

' cause we

601

:

bought the company almost a

little more than a year later.

602

:

So Elizabeth's been on this rap

journey pretty much the whole

603

:

way.

604

:

Yeah.

605

:

Yeah.

606

:

I was gonna say Rat race we're on the same

607

:

treadmill, right?

608

:

from the start.

609

:

And,

610

:

the girls came along

611

:

later.

612

:

Madison is

613

:

31

614

:

right now.

615

:

She's

616

:

a singer songwriter with some game.

617

:

She's got game,

618

:

I'm telling you, I'm

619

:

really

620

:

impressed.

621

:

I'll have to,

622

:

You gotta have to ask me and I'll let

you hear some of that stuff It's really

623

:

good,

624

:

'cause I'm a father,

625

:

But I can be a hard ass too.

626

:

as a father, unfortunately.

627

:

Jeff: I've witnessed

628

:

that.

629

:

We've had some dinners with your

daughters there and you were definitely.

630

:

a disciplinarian.

631

:

Paul: I dunno who's disciplining who.

632

:

whether they're doing it

to me, or I'm doing it

633

:

to them, but

634

:

it goes back and

635

:

forth.

636

:

My other daughter lives in New Orleans.

637

:

Madison lived

638

:

in New York for nine years.

639

:

and just moved back to DC so we're really

happy to have her in the same area.

640

:

Isabella Liz went to,

641

:

Tulane

642

:

and she's

643

:

never moved back.

644

:

Jeff: likes new Orleans, huh?

645

:

Paul: She loves it.

646

:

but as a dad

647

:

Obviously I'd much rather have her

648

:

around,

649

:

she started a business,

650

:

as an herbalist

651

:

Just had a big

652

:

show last month.

653

:

on nine nine September 9th,

654

:

And where she invited all of her

vendors and it was a pop-up thing.

655

:

in a Beautiful park in the city

656

:

And she

657

:

did a very chic job like

her mother would do.

658

:

And it was,

659

:

a lot of

660

:

Jeff: And

661

:

so you've instilled the entrepreneurial

like the approach your family.

662

:

Paul: I think so.

663

:

I think they both do.

664

:

Elizabeth's got a little

of that in her too.

665

:

say the least.

666

:

And Isabella plays in a band

667

:

as well.

668

:

Sweet.

669

:

She

670

:

plays, it.

671

:

She runs

672

:

Jeff: So you have a musical family

673

:

George: where'd it come from?

674

:

. Where'd all the

675

:

Paul: music

676

:

Oh, you're looking at 'em, man.

677

:

Yeah.

678

:

Came all from me.

679

:

You believe

680

:

George: that

681

:

garage band?

682

:

Paul: I

683

:

Jeff: I wish the listeners

could see his face right

684

:

now.

685

:

I

686

:

Paul: nothing.

687

:

absolutely.

688

:

No game, no skill, nothing.

689

:

Uh, Elizabeth.

690

:

Yeah.

691

:

Yeah.

692

:

And I tell you what, there

three of 'em are pretty good.

693

:

George: I'm curious,

being a dad of two girls

694

:

Paul: Nice.

695

:

you're

696

:

George: blessed.

697

:

I'm blessed.

698

:

I'm blessed.

699

:

I have one boy, three girls.

700

:

But I'm curious about the time.

701

:

When maybe they brought

home the first boy.

702

:

What was that moment like as

a dad and how did you respond?

703

:

Because I'm making an assumption now as

704

:

Jeff: a

705

:

you're getting ready

for that moment, George.

706

:

George: Yeah.

707

:

I'm just curious.

708

:

Prep me

709

:

Paul: I don't think I ever

said anything to any, of

710

:

their friends that would've been

711

:

intimidating.

712

:

I'll tell you,

713

:

Elizabeth ran the roost.

714

:

Okay.

715

:

And,

716

:

She would get,

717

:

into some people's faces.

718

:

oh, she'd get into parents

719

:

faces

720

:

that she thought the kid was outta line.

721

:

okay.

722

:

My wife

723

:

Yeah.

724

:

And she'd

725

:

come out swinging,

726

:

Jeff: so family's

obviously very important.

727

:

to you.

728

:

your

729

:

Italian heritage, your

730

:

Irish

731

:

Paul: for all of us.

732

:

Yeah.

733

:

Jeff: Peter obviously has

been with you all along.

734

:

Still is.

735

:

Yep.

736

:

Your wife's been a very important

part of this whole journey.

737

:

Sure.

738

:

Any other family members involved?

739

:

Paul: Peter and I started

740

:

40 years ago.

741

:

We had a six year, I should call it a

bout that, it was around:

742

:

where we just couldn't stand each other.

743

:

And 2014,

744

:

he came

745

:

to me

746

:

and said, would you buy me out?

747

:

I said no.

748

:

There is absolutely

749

:

No way.

750

:

If you get bought out, Right.

751

:

now, you're gonna get totally screwed.

752

:

you leave when I leave,

753

:

That's it.

754

:

That's the

755

:

Way it works,

756

:

No other way.

757

:

And then, we'll do well together.

758

:

I know.

759

:

He walked

760

:

away thinking all right,

he's still got my back.

761

:

He might

762

:

hate,

763

:

me, but he loves

764

:

me.

765

:

Jeff: right

766

:

Paul: Like brothers

767

:

should Absolutely.

768

:

Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

769

:

Like that.

770

:

Yeah.

771

:

But no, no other family.

772

:

the money we raised when

we bought the business.

773

:

came from

774

:

a Father of a friend

775

:

of mine,

776

:

in college,

777

:

a father of a friend,

778

:

of mine, in business

779

:

school.

780

:

A

781

:

friend of mine.

782

:

from college.

783

:

and a Father, an old girlfriend

784

:

Who wrote the biggest check?

785

:

they did.

786

:

Okay.

787

:

Most of 'em, I think one

or two of 'em are still in.

788

:

but that's it.

789

:

They all got paid off and they're out

790

:

Jeff: So you had the

three original owners.

791

:

One of them you mentioned passed

away even before the deal was done.

792

:

You attributed some mentoring,

if you will, to the other two.

793

:

Any other mentors along your journey here?

794

:

People you met in the

795

:

industry or?

796

:

Paul: one of my.

797

:

School professors in business

school was a good mentor along

798

:

this, journey, particularly

799

:

When we first started

looking for a company.

800

:

to buy.

801

:

After not too

802

:

long thereafter

803

:

I'd still call him and ask for advice.

804

:

And

805

:

he

806

:

was extremely helpful.

807

:

He was actually, if you ever heard of,

808

:

A mechanism

809

:

called a search

810

:

fund that goes

811

:

out and buys, a lot of these

812

:

kids that come out, of

business school they

813

:

go out and they raise

814

:

money from

815

:

Family and friends

816

:

under the promise,

817

:

that they're gonna find a company

818

:

and buy it,

819

:

search for

820

:

it, identify and buy it.

821

:

And he started this thing,

822

:

and now we were the third

823

:

group, into it.

824

:

he owned the Celtics for 20 years.

825

:

He just sold them.

826

:

His name, is Irv Beck He was a phenomenal

827

:

mentor of but Still around.

828

:

Jeff: So you wanna dig into a little

bit the business side of things.

829

:

We'd love to hear more about the

philosophy, the business model, There's

830

:

some things you guys did with open book

with your employees over the years.

831

:

Just learn a little bit more

about that journey and things you

832

:

brought that maybe differentiate

you from other box plants out

833

:

Paul: Yeah, thanks.

834

:

that's an astute question

835

:

coming

836

:

from somebody that cares

about the customers.

837

:

right?

838

:

So we on a customer level,

I want the organization

839

:

to be can do

840

:

towards, Can do.

841

:

Yes, we can do

842

:

it.

843

:

And, we're surrounded by,

can't do in our lives.

844

:

I want customer calling

and say can we do this?

845

:

And it's

846

:

impossible,

847

:

And

848

:

I

849

:

hope our people will say lemme get back

850

:

to

851

:

you

852

:

Lemme see what we can do.

853

:

And they come back with some options.

854

:

Jeff, by the way.

855

:

is

856

:

a can.

857

:

all the way in and out.

858

:

can do, always can do.

859

:

Which is why we keep going back

to so that's huge philosophy, that

860

:

I hope.

861

:

permeates the organization.

862

:

Second thing I hope honestly,

is that the people think

863

:

That they wanna win.

864

:

And not just for the

company, but for themselves.

865

:

They like what

866

:

they're doing.

867

:

they like coming

868

:

to work,

869

:

I'm hoping

870

:

and that they're, the

number one reason why

871

:

people leave

872

:

their job is what

873

:

their boss.

874

:

So I'm hoping that, and

875

:

we do,

876

:

we actually, we will

877

:

let them do surveys

878

:

telling us how well they're,

communicating with their boss.

879

:

and how's that working out?

880

:

so

881

:

Jeff: can you tell us a little

bit about those surveys?

882

:

Several people have talked about

'em in previous podcasts, trying

883

:

to really collect anonymous

information to help you get better.

884

:

How do you go about those?

885

:

Paul: So what we'll do is we'll

give the surveys to the People

886

:

on the floor in the office and

887

:

we'll ask

888

:

questions,

889

:

like

890

:

is your supervisor

891

:

a good listener?

892

:

is she a

893

:

good teacher?

894

:

do they help you

895

:

when you need

896

:

it?

897

:

What was the last thing you learned?

898

:

from your supervisor?

899

:

are they a resource?

900

:

That kind of thing.

901

:

Positive questions.

902

:

over the years, we've let people go.

903

:

we've given supervisors a chance.

904

:

Say, look, this is what

they're saying about you.

905

:

You gotta fix this.

906

:

You wanna become a better leader.

907

:

This is what you gotta do.

908

:

And if they do, we

celebrate, they get a bump.

909

:

and

910

:

they're known

911

:

for getting better.

912

:

improving.

913

:

And if they don't, they're

914

:

out.

915

:

we're due by the way, for

916

:

another one of these surveys.

917

:

but that's one part of the organization,

the soft part, that I think is

918

:

extremely important that we have to be

919

:

listening to the people

that are working with us.

920

:

'cause they're On the ground.

921

:

every day.

922

:

The customer again, can do.

923

:

And then, suppliers I like to

think, with the exception of a few

924

:

moments, every once in a while When

925

:

somebody really pisses

926

:

me

927

:

off,

928

:

Jeff I

929

:

want to treat 'em like we treat

930

:

customers.

931

:

George: Yeah.

932

:

Paul: I do.

933

:

We rely on, our

934

:

supplier.

935

:

And they do

936

:

a phenomenal.

937

:

the people that

938

:

are working

939

:

with Jeff.

940

:

are extremely competent and they care.

941

:

Same with our paper suppliers

we and a lot of other,

942

:

All suppliers that we touch, they

help us in one way or the other.

943

:

and if we get the sense that they're

944

:

really not

945

:

interested.

946

:

in.

947

:

helping us, we go someplace else.

948

:

George: So

949

:

maybe unpack that even a little bit more.

950

:

'cause I'm interested when you talk

about service and caring for your

951

:

customers, and I think a lot of businesses

say, strive to provide an excellent

952

:

client experience in your business.

953

:

What does that look like for a customer?

954

:

Paul: The first and foremost

955

:

is

956

:

that

957

:

We give

958

:

them.

959

:

the service.

960

:

that they need at competitive

961

:

price limits.

962

:

and then we help solve problems.

963

:

for 'em.

964

:

So

965

:

if a customer comes in,

966

:

and says, we ran out of boxes.

967

:

I need,

968

:

this stuff today,

969

:

then how do we get it to

970

:

'em

971

:

today,

972

:

or tomorrow we

973

:

Our catch line is the FedEx of the box.

974

:

bus So the delivery side.

975

:

The other thing is, I don't

want people to call Atlas.

976

:

and I more than twice.

977

:

I don't want people to go on hold

978

:

for

979

:

more than 10.

980

:

seconds.

981

:

I don't care if it's customer or a

982

:

supplier or,

983

:

a family member,

984

:

Answer the phone.

985

:

Get on the phone.

986

:

So I want them to feel like they're,

987

:

everybody

988

:

who calls in,

989

:

is important,

990

:

especially customers.

991

:

And that we're there for 'em.

992

:

George: How do you build that culture

internally so that everyone understands

993

:

that's the end game, regardless

of the department they're working

994

:

in?

995

:

Paul: I think that like everything else,

you gotta repeat it over and over again.

996

:

and that's what.

997

:

happens.

998

:

It becomes true.

999

:

by its

:

00:22:32,516 --> 00:22:33,416

repetitive nature.

:

00:22:33,576 --> 00:22:36,971

George: Do you post signs in your

building anywhere, like your core values?

:

00:22:36,971 --> 00:22:37,256

people

:

00:22:37,516 --> 00:22:37,596

Paul: it?

:

00:22:37,696 --> 00:22:37,706

Yeah.

:

00:22:37,786 --> 00:22:38,146

Yeah,

:

00:22:38,206 --> 00:22:38,626

I'll tell you

:

00:22:38,736 --> 00:22:39,036

I'm not

:

00:22:39,036 --> 00:22:39,636

big on that.

:

00:22:39,846 --> 00:22:40,326

George,

:

00:22:40,476 --> 00:22:41,886

' cause they usually collect dust.

:

00:22:42,246 --> 00:22:42,306

Yeah.

:

00:22:42,516 --> 00:22:43,116

I want to

:

00:22:43,296 --> 00:22:44,196

them to live it.

:

00:22:44,506 --> 00:22:46,066

And of course it's good if they see it,

:

00:22:46,116 --> 00:22:46,956

but they get used to it.

:

00:22:46,956 --> 00:22:47,556

They don't notice it.

:

00:22:47,556 --> 00:22:47,946

anymore.

:

00:22:48,166 --> 00:22:50,686

What I'm looking for,

and I wanna celebrate

:

00:22:51,226 --> 00:22:51,496

when

:

00:22:51,496 --> 00:22:52,816

people do these things,

:

00:22:52,986 --> 00:22:53,976

when they do heroic

:

00:22:54,826 --> 00:22:55,186

Something,

:

00:22:55,236 --> 00:22:55,776

heroic

:

00:22:55,776 --> 00:22:56,646

for the customer,

:

00:22:57,246 --> 00:22:58,116

people hear, about it.

:

00:22:58,446 --> 00:22:59,076

Did You hear what?

:

00:22:59,106 --> 00:23:01,176

So and so did the guys on the plant

:

00:23:01,176 --> 00:23:01,596

floor,

:

00:23:02,376 --> 00:23:03,726

We're talking all the time

:

00:23:04,116 --> 00:23:04,626

about

:

00:23:05,136 --> 00:23:06,876

what you guys did to help,

:

00:23:06,876 --> 00:23:07,716

this customer,

:

00:23:08,046 --> 00:23:08,556

And

:

00:23:08,626 --> 00:23:09,376

how important

:

00:23:09,376 --> 00:23:09,856

that was.

:

00:23:09,856 --> 00:23:11,416

for that person's business.

:

00:23:11,656 --> 00:23:11,986

And

:

00:23:12,076 --> 00:23:12,706

then we talk about.

:

00:23:12,706 --> 00:23:13,816

how important the customer is for

:

00:23:13,816 --> 00:23:14,206

us.

:

00:23:14,986 --> 00:23:16,576

if that conversation is going

:

00:23:16,576 --> 00:23:16,586

On,

:

00:23:16,586 --> 00:23:18,826

a regular basis, They get it.

:

00:23:19,406 --> 00:23:23,246

These guys are blue

collar workers that are

:

00:23:23,246 --> 00:23:24,776

basic CPAs

:

00:23:24,836 --> 00:23:28,106

When they're looking at their

paycheck, They know what's

:

00:23:28,106 --> 00:23:29,546

important and what isn't important.

:

00:23:29,546 --> 00:23:31,076

They get it, and

:

00:23:31,136 --> 00:23:33,616

that's Pretty much the way

it is in every plant around

:

00:23:33,616 --> 00:23:34,066

the world.

:

00:23:34,396 --> 00:23:35,146

People know.

:

00:23:35,506 --> 00:23:36,946

Jeff mentioned earlier something

:

00:23:36,946 --> 00:23:38,176

about open book management.

:

00:23:38,206 --> 00:23:39,016

we gotta get back to

:

00:23:39,016 --> 00:23:40,696

this, but we stopped it because of COVID.

:

00:23:41,146 --> 00:23:45,356

You Can't put a lot of people together in

one room, but at the end of every month

:

00:23:45,386 --> 00:23:49,506

we'd go over the financial statements

right down to net profit, bottom line

:

00:23:49,506 --> 00:23:50,316

before tax,

:

00:23:51,126 --> 00:23:51,306

and

:

00:23:51,306 --> 00:23:51,966

that culture

:

00:23:51,966 --> 00:23:52,416

still

:

00:23:52,926 --> 00:23:53,136

has

:

00:23:53,136 --> 00:23:55,806

survived itself We have

scorecards out there.

:

00:23:55,806 --> 00:23:57,636

So they know how they're

doing on all the machines,

:

00:23:57,786 --> 00:23:59,316

And then there's a line

of sight between what

:

00:23:59,316 --> 00:24:00,096

they do every

:

00:24:00,096 --> 00:24:00,486

day,

:

00:24:00,756 --> 00:24:03,066

and how it connects to the financial

statements at the end of the month.

:

00:24:03,916 --> 00:24:05,536

We give 'em good news,

we give 'em bad news.

:

00:24:06,436 --> 00:24:07,366

We've lost some people

:

00:24:07,366 --> 00:24:09,101

over the years 'cause of the bad news,

:

00:24:10,001 --> 00:24:10,181

But

:

00:24:10,181 --> 00:24:10,361

we've

:

00:24:10,631 --> 00:24:14,841

kept a lot, and we've built a culture

where, people are in the know and

:

00:24:14,841 --> 00:24:15,261

they like it

:

00:24:15,261 --> 00:24:15,681

that way.

:

00:24:16,251 --> 00:24:17,661

They Feel like there's some ownership.

:

00:24:18,426 --> 00:24:18,786

Jeff: Absolutely.

:

00:24:18,786 --> 00:24:20,826

They feel like they're part of

the business, their actions.

:

00:24:21,286 --> 00:24:24,066

Ultimately trickle down to the bottom line

and you show them how that happens and

:

00:24:24,115 --> 00:24:24,621

Paul: when Yeah.

:

00:24:24,801 --> 00:24:28,491

Imagine playing football on a

team and never seeing the score.

:

00:24:29,391 --> 00:24:30,591

Jeff: there's no chance I'm playing

:

00:24:30,591 --> 00:24:30,771

that.

:

00:24:30,826 --> 00:24:32,866

Paul: the Ravens might have liked

that this weekend, but Right.

:

00:24:33,766 --> 00:24:34,066

George: Wow.

:

00:24:34,096 --> 00:24:35,056

No that's interesting.

:

00:24:35,266 --> 00:24:35,386

the

:

00:24:35,386 --> 00:24:38,826

thing that kind of sticks out to me

with, with businesses that started

:

00:24:38,826 --> 00:24:40,776

the way your business has started.

:

00:24:40,776 --> 00:24:42,996

Obviously you've been in

it for now for 40 years.

:

00:24:43,046 --> 00:24:44,006

You've learned a lot.

:

00:24:44,906 --> 00:24:51,546

At what point in your journey did you

start to maybe shift from the person

:

00:24:51,546 --> 00:24:55,516

who's doing a lot of the learning to the

person who's doing a lot of the mentoring?

:

00:24:55,826 --> 00:24:58,076

There's a lot of employees in your

business now that I'm sure have

:

00:24:58,076 --> 00:25:01,406

been with you for a while, that

you've had a chance to invest in.

:

00:25:01,946 --> 00:25:04,436

What's the biggest or

best advice you would

:

00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:04,976

give

:

00:25:05,546 --> 00:25:09,176

to one of your staff members or

maybe someone who's new in the

:

00:25:09,176 --> 00:25:12,336

industry looking to break ground

like you did many years ago?

:

00:25:12,606 --> 00:25:15,696

What would you say to them

today if they're, trying to

:

00:25:15,786 --> 00:25:17,586

dive deep into this wonderful

:

00:25:17,736 --> 00:25:18,006

Paul: process?

:

00:25:18,096 --> 00:25:18,156

Yeah.

:

00:25:18,156 --> 00:25:19,026

That's a good question.

:

00:25:19,126 --> 00:25:19,306

There are

:

00:25:19,306 --> 00:25:21,606

two there one is going, shifting from,

:

00:25:22,256 --> 00:25:23,886

Learning to teaching.

:

00:25:24,426 --> 00:25:24,846

And

:

00:25:24,906 --> 00:25:25,236

the reason

:

00:25:25,236 --> 00:25:25,836

why I'm here.

:

00:25:25,836 --> 00:25:28,686

in Chicago this weekend is, or

this, these next few days, is

:

00:25:28,716 --> 00:25:29,616

'cause I wanna learn.

:

00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:30,816

That's the

:

00:25:30,816 --> 00:25:31,506

only reason why I'm here.

:

00:25:31,506 --> 00:25:32,496

I like seeing some Guys,

:

00:25:33,186 --> 00:25:33,876

that's a good thing.

:

00:25:34,606 --> 00:25:34,876

A lot of,

:

00:25:35,176 --> 00:25:37,046

old friends in this business, but what,

:

00:25:37,116 --> 00:25:37,866

What am I gonna learn?

:

00:25:37,866 --> 00:25:38,106

What am I

:

00:25:38,106 --> 00:25:38,706

gonna take it home?

:

00:25:39,486 --> 00:25:39,666

cause

:

00:25:39,666 --> 00:25:40,506

when I stop learning,

:

00:25:40,506 --> 00:25:40,926

we're screwed.

:

00:25:41,826 --> 00:25:42,036

As

:

00:25:42,036 --> 00:25:42,426

the leader

:

00:25:42,426 --> 00:25:42,966

of the company

:

00:25:43,566 --> 00:25:45,526

now for young people,

:

00:25:45,706 --> 00:25:46,396

coming in,

:

00:25:46,976 --> 00:25:49,996

I like to think that

they are also receptive.

:

00:25:50,056 --> 00:25:51,886

to learning, which means

they're receptive to change

:

00:25:51,886 --> 00:25:52,186

which is

:

00:25:52,186 --> 00:25:52,846

not easy

:

00:25:53,506 --> 00:25:54,676

for any of us.

:

00:25:54,756 --> 00:25:55,056

But

:

00:25:55,746 --> 00:25:56,136

it's, I

:

00:25:56,136 --> 00:25:57,696

think that's a mandate.

:

00:25:58,026 --> 00:26:02,406

for Anybody in our organization, They

gotta wanna, they gotta wanna learn.

:

00:26:03,306 --> 00:26:03,666

And

:

00:26:03,666 --> 00:26:05,956

by the way, when they're

younger that's the easiest time

:

00:26:05,956 --> 00:26:06,286

to learn.

:

00:26:07,186 --> 00:26:08,356

Having said that, the,

:

00:26:08,386 --> 00:26:09,256

there is a mandate

:

00:26:09,616 --> 00:26:10,096

but

:

00:26:10,966 --> 00:26:13,246

when I taught at Georgetown

:

00:26:13,246 --> 00:26:14,596

University on and on for

:

00:26:15,436 --> 00:26:16,336

15 years.

:

00:26:16,336 --> 00:26:17,051

on and off Paul?

:

00:26:17,116 --> 00:26:18,496

I taught entrepreneurship

:

00:26:19,396 --> 00:26:20,446

To the undergrads and

:

00:26:20,446 --> 00:26:20,836

the mba

:

00:26:20,836 --> 00:26:22,486

students And

:

00:26:22,536 --> 00:26:23,916

I had a lot of fun doing that

:

00:26:23,916 --> 00:26:24,186

because

:

00:26:24,186 --> 00:26:25,976

those guys learned fast and they were

:

00:26:25,976 --> 00:26:26,186

there.

:

00:26:26,186 --> 00:26:27,176

they were paying a lot of money.

:

00:26:27,176 --> 00:26:27,566

to learn.

:

00:26:28,436 --> 00:26:28,676

I

:

00:26:28,886 --> 00:26:29,336

Enjoyed

:

00:26:29,336 --> 00:26:30,056

the undergrads,

:

00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:31,286

more than the MBAs

:

00:26:31,911 --> 00:26:33,246

'cause the MBAs, First

:

00:26:33,246 --> 00:26:34,236

of all, you couldn't intimidate.

:

00:26:35,136 --> 00:26:35,406

right?

:

00:26:36,081 --> 00:26:36,201

Jeff: I

:

00:26:36,201 --> 00:26:36,481

don't know.

:

00:26:36,481 --> 00:26:37,201

You're pretty good.

:

00:26:37,201 --> 00:26:37,441

at that.

:

00:26:38,106 --> 00:26:40,266

Paul: And there is some intimidation.

:

00:26:40,266 --> 00:26:42,646

when it comes to learning

or teaching because

:

00:26:42,976 --> 00:26:45,766

if it's too much, then

they're not gonna learn.

:

00:26:45,766 --> 00:26:46,006

anything.

:

00:26:46,036 --> 00:26:47,206

' cause you're just scare 'em to death.

:

00:26:47,656 --> 00:26:47,836

If

:

00:26:47,836 --> 00:26:49,276

there's not enough, they're

not gonna do the work.

:

00:26:49,276 --> 00:26:50,266

That's the MBAs now.

:

00:26:50,326 --> 00:26:51,091

The undergrads are different.

:

00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:51,850

smarter.

:

00:26:52,180 --> 00:26:53,230

than the MBAs 'cause harder.

:

00:26:53,230 --> 00:26:53,890

to get in

:

00:26:54,460 --> 00:26:55,390

to the undergrad than it is

:

00:26:55,390 --> 00:26:56,260

the MBA program.

:

00:26:56,620 --> 00:26:56,920

But they're

:

00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,750

also really willing.

:

00:26:58,930 --> 00:26:59,530

to learn.

:

00:27:00,010 --> 00:27:01,210

And they do respond.

:

00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:05,130

to intimidation, the

learning thing has always

:

00:27:05,130 --> 00:27:05,310

been

:

00:27:05,310 --> 00:27:06,120

big in my life.

:

00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:06,130

I.

:

00:27:06,615 --> 00:27:09,715

Fortunately, had gone to some of the

best schools in the world, my father

:

00:27:09,715 --> 00:27:10,705

was a phenomenal

:

00:27:10,705 --> 00:27:11,185

learner,

:

00:27:11,815 --> 00:27:12,535

First class

:

00:27:12,535 --> 00:27:14,245

in high school, college and med school.

:

00:27:14,765 --> 00:27:14,945

My

:

00:27:14,945 --> 00:27:15,545

brother, and sister,

:

00:27:15,545 --> 00:27:16,475

were great.

:

00:27:16,525 --> 00:27:18,115

my mother was just pure,

:

00:27:18,115 --> 00:27:18,445

common

:

00:27:18,445 --> 00:27:20,465

sense growing up in a Boston

:

00:27:20,465 --> 00:27:21,155

Irish family.

:

00:27:21,155 --> 00:27:24,695

I'm really determined

to move the organization

:

00:27:24,745 --> 00:27:28,225

In a learning way, in making

it a learning organization.

:

00:27:28,575 --> 00:27:32,260

Jeff: Can you speak a little bit then

to how A ICC has impacted you there?

:

00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:34,930

Because obviously some of their

significant initiatives are

:

00:27:34,930 --> 00:27:38,330

all around being an educational

source for the independent box.

:

00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:41,280

maker Be it on the financial

side, be it on the sales side,

:

00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:43,050

the machinery side, et cetera.

:

00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:44,910

So is that something

you've been utilizing and

:

00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:45,930

how's that helped you?

:

00:27:46,150 --> 00:27:49,040

Paul: Yes, our person,

who's in charge of HR

:

00:27:49,940 --> 00:27:50,360

has

:

00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:51,080

brought in

:

00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,300

the iccs, resources, for learning

:

00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,360

On the web.

:

00:27:55,794 --> 00:27:57,294

In webinars And

:

00:27:57,344 --> 00:27:58,004

introductions,

:

00:27:58,004 --> 00:27:58,574

to the industry.

:

00:27:58,807 --> 00:28:00,277

And there's a lot of folks that have

:

00:28:00,277 --> 00:28:00,877

been through,

:

00:28:01,027 --> 00:28:01,537

I like to have.

:

00:28:01,537 --> 00:28:03,217

more for sure,

:

00:28:03,217 --> 00:28:03,532

But the

:

00:28:03,532 --> 00:28:03,667

a

:

00:28:03,667 --> 00:28:05,977

C Cs has done a great job

:

00:28:06,667 --> 00:28:09,427

Jeff: and I think our industry is unique

in that people are willing to share.

:

00:28:09,457 --> 00:28:12,037

People like yourself and

others are willing to share and

:

00:28:12,307 --> 00:28:13,627

participate in those webinars,

:

00:28:13,717 --> 00:28:17,167

, CEO groups, et cetera, and really

share concerns, good practices,

:

00:28:17,167 --> 00:28:18,247

bad, practices, et cetera.

:

00:28:18,557 --> 00:28:21,077

And A SEC, especially for the

independent pulls that together.

:

00:28:21,077 --> 00:28:22,127

and makes it Available in a,

:

00:28:22,267 --> 00:28:22,652

It does.

:

00:28:22,862 --> 00:28:23,072

Paul: Easier

:

00:28:23,072 --> 00:28:23,612

way helps.

:

00:28:23,612 --> 00:28:26,762

And you asked me a question earlier,

which I don't think I answered, but

:

00:28:26,792 --> 00:28:28,732

these young kids that come in how do you

:

00:28:28,732 --> 00:28:29,362

assure,

:

00:28:30,022 --> 00:28:31,822

that They learn and what are you doing

:

00:28:32,062 --> 00:28:32,152

to

:

00:28:32,202 --> 00:28:32,712

teach them?

:

00:28:32,772 --> 00:28:34,892

And if they don't want to learn.

:

00:28:34,892 --> 00:28:35,822

then I don't wanna hire 'em.

:

00:28:36,102 --> 00:28:37,002

Which I think I made that

:

00:28:37,002 --> 00:28:37,572

point earlier.

:

00:28:38,172 --> 00:28:40,132

But I've had good experiences with

:

00:28:40,372 --> 00:28:44,882

these young people, They listen,

they're very intent And they

:

00:28:44,882 --> 00:28:46,712

listen, actively They do.

:

00:28:47,072 --> 00:28:47,912

what I suggest.

:

00:28:48,012 --> 00:28:48,522

And

:

00:28:48,522 --> 00:28:49,572

It's not just to please me.

:

00:28:49,572 --> 00:28:50,142

they know it's good.

:

00:28:50,142 --> 00:28:50,472

for them.

:

00:28:51,372 --> 00:28:53,922

And you got an A ICC in the background.

:

00:28:54,462 --> 00:28:56,082

It's a wealth of information,

:

00:28:56,262 --> 00:28:56,532

that they

:

00:28:56,532 --> 00:28:56,772

can,

:

00:28:57,172 --> 00:28:57,922

Dive into,

:

00:28:58,492 --> 00:28:58,912

and

:

00:28:58,912 --> 00:29:00,862

Really learn about, the business.

:

00:29:01,072 --> 00:29:01,822

and this, by the way, is

:

00:29:01,822 --> 00:29:01,852

a

:

00:29:01,852 --> 00:29:02,542

great business

:

00:29:02,592 --> 00:29:04,422

I've looked at a lot of

different industries and I've

:

00:29:04,422 --> 00:29:06,632

been in others Because

of the very nature of

:

00:29:06,682 --> 00:29:07,697

its global, but local.

:

00:29:08,597 --> 00:29:09,527

makes it a very,

:

00:29:09,527 --> 00:29:10,427

special place.

:

00:29:10,817 --> 00:29:10,967

yeah,

:

00:29:11,177 --> 00:29:11,297

I

:

00:29:11,347 --> 00:29:13,807

Jeff: I think of the onset, you

described it quite well and it's an

:

00:29:13,807 --> 00:29:16,507

industry we've all chosen and have

stayed in for a lot of reasons.

:

00:29:16,747 --> 00:29:18,067

One of which is the people.

:

00:29:18,247 --> 00:29:20,617

It is full of a lot of overachievers.

:

00:29:20,777 --> 00:29:22,676

journey that is similar to yours in many

:

00:29:22,676 --> 00:29:23,096

ways.

:

00:29:23,526 --> 00:29:24,906

and they find themself in a good spot.

:

00:29:24,956 --> 00:29:25,556

We encourage it.

:

00:29:25,556 --> 00:29:26,156

I have four kids.

:

00:29:26,156 --> 00:29:27,296

I got one in the business so far.

:

00:29:27,341 --> 00:29:27,731

Paul: I heard.

:

00:29:27,971 --> 00:29:28,331

Yeah.

:

00:29:28,391 --> 00:29:28,961

No, that's good.

:

00:29:29,351 --> 00:29:30,131

It's good stuff, man.

:

00:29:30,131 --> 00:29:31,241

I think it's a good place to be.

:

00:29:31,301 --> 00:29:33,761

It's, there's a lot of opportunity.

:

00:29:33,831 --> 00:29:34,821

COVID changed

:

00:29:34,821 --> 00:29:35,211

the game.

:

00:29:35,211 --> 00:29:36,171

completely for a lot of

:

00:29:36,171 --> 00:29:36,501

us.

:

00:29:37,281 --> 00:29:37,611

And

:

00:29:37,611 --> 00:29:38,571

I think we went from

:

00:29:38,641 --> 00:29:40,471

What do you do to, oh, wow.

:

00:29:40,471 --> 00:29:41,041

That's cool.

:

00:29:41,611 --> 00:29:41,941

I really

:

00:29:41,941 --> 00:29:42,481

like that.

:

00:29:42,841 --> 00:29:44,011

Oh, they're all over the place.

:

00:29:44,261 --> 00:29:44,621

So

:

00:29:44,741 --> 00:29:46,871

Jeff: Did you have to make any

significant adjustments during

:

00:29:46,871 --> 00:29:48,101

COVID to run your business?

:

00:29:48,151 --> 00:29:51,071

Apart from the obvious things

we did to protect employees and

:

00:29:51,102 --> 00:29:51,221

Paul: so

:

00:29:51,221 --> 00:29:51,431

forth.

:

00:29:51,431 --> 00:29:51,731

Yeah.

:

00:29:51,801 --> 00:29:56,991

What we did was we bought an EMBA

that arrived the month after COVID.

:

00:29:57,891 --> 00:30:01,251

So when the whole world was getting

inundated with these orders,

:

00:30:01,821 --> 00:30:02,421

we were ready.

:

00:30:03,321 --> 00:30:03,711

And

:

00:30:03,801 --> 00:30:04,041

I'd

:

00:30:04,041 --> 00:30:05,031

much rather be lucky

:

00:30:05,031 --> 00:30:05,631

than smart.

:

00:30:06,531 --> 00:30:06,831

Really?

:

00:30:08,321 --> 00:30:08,591

Oh, of

:

00:30:08,591 --> 00:30:08,861

course.

:

00:30:08,961 --> 00:30:09,081

I it

:

00:30:09,081 --> 00:30:09,381

was planned

:

00:30:09,711 --> 00:30:10,106

George: well it

:

00:30:10,201 --> 00:30:10,651

Jeff: have started

:

00:30:10,756 --> 00:30:11,896

Paul: I saw the, tea leaves.

:

00:30:12,286 --> 00:30:12,426

know what's happen.

:

00:30:12,426 --> 00:30:12,436

Yeah,

:

00:30:12,616 --> 00:30:12,646

I

:

00:30:12,646 --> 00:30:13,036

got that.

:

00:30:13,036 --> 00:30:13,366

Yeah.

:

00:30:13,936 --> 00:30:14,776

Yeah, for sure.

:

00:30:15,206 --> 00:30:15,416

No.

:

00:30:15,416 --> 00:30:15,656

I was

:

00:30:15,756 --> 00:30:16,686

We were blessed to have that.

:

00:30:16,686 --> 00:30:17,056

happen.

:

00:30:17,286 --> 00:30:20,316

George: How much extra capacity

did that purchase give you?

:

00:30:20,366 --> 00:30:22,786

Because obviously we all

faced a bit of a surge.

:

00:30:23,006 --> 00:30:23,336

Paul: Yeah.

:

00:30:23,426 --> 00:30:24,356

Almost enough.

:

00:30:24,866 --> 00:30:25,226

George: Okay.

:

00:30:25,706 --> 00:30:26,126

Paul: Almost

:

00:30:26,126 --> 00:30:27,796

I would say it was by

:

00:30:27,796 --> 00:30:28,276

Far the

:

00:30:28,276 --> 00:30:29,416

most productive machine,

:

00:30:29,416 --> 00:30:30,586

in the plant besides the corrugator.

:

00:30:31,276 --> 00:30:31,696

And

:

00:30:31,746 --> 00:30:34,866

it was an EMBA flex three color,

flexor hold of glue with a dye cutter.

:

00:30:35,196 --> 00:30:36,056

And, we needed.

:

00:30:36,056 --> 00:30:36,146

it.

:

00:30:36,806 --> 00:30:38,936

I Can't tell you if it was a 25%.

:

00:30:38,936 --> 00:30:41,066

bump or what, but it

:

00:30:41,966 --> 00:30:43,196

Almost gave us enough.

:

00:30:43,526 --> 00:30:43,916

And We were

:

00:30:43,916 --> 00:30:44,636

still behind.

:

00:30:45,446 --> 00:30:46,346

When the whole world was

:

00:30:46,346 --> 00:30:47,516

struggling to just keep up.

:

00:30:47,634 --> 00:30:47,826

George: struck.

:

00:30:47,881 --> 00:30:48,151

Paul: So

:

00:30:48,151 --> 00:30:50,471

we didn't lose a lot

:

00:30:50,471 --> 00:30:50,981

of business

:

00:30:51,881 --> 00:30:53,741

that got, taken by

:

00:30:53,861 --> 00:30:55,121

competitors that were

:

00:30:55,121 --> 00:30:55,811

able to run it.

:

00:30:55,871 --> 00:30:56,981

We were that guy.

:

00:30:57,101 --> 00:30:57,791

we were taken.

:

00:30:58,151 --> 00:30:58,811

from Other people

:

00:30:58,811 --> 00:30:59,141

that couldn't.

:

00:30:59,141 --> 00:30:59,281

run

:

00:30:59,951 --> 00:31:00,071

we

:

00:31:00,121 --> 00:31:01,171

Had that extra capacity.

:

00:31:01,651 --> 00:31:02,241

So it was a great

:

00:31:02,241 --> 00:31:02,931

move on

:

00:31:03,006 --> 00:31:03,201

Jeff: apart.

:

00:31:03,291 --> 00:31:03,711

Paul: lucky.

:

00:31:04,116 --> 00:31:05,586

George: You gotta be

good to get lucky though

:

00:31:05,586 --> 00:31:06,156

sometimes,

:

00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:06,546

right?

:

00:31:06,606 --> 00:31:06,726

You do.

:

00:31:06,726 --> 00:31:06,786

Yeah.

:

00:31:06,856 --> 00:31:08,476

Jeff: how about one of

The more difficult times.

:

00:31:08,476 --> 00:31:10,426

I know you alluded to the fact that

:

00:31:10,756 --> 00:31:12,556

you get knocked down you get back up.

:

00:31:12,926 --> 00:31:13,766

That's one of your strengths.

:

00:31:13,766 --> 00:31:14,576

that's one of your philosophies.

:

00:31:14,576 --> 00:31:15,716

I know it's not always been easy.

:

00:31:15,716 --> 00:31:17,306

It hasn't been for our company for sure.

:

00:31:18,206 --> 00:31:20,576

Talk a little bit if you were

willing on some of the difficult

:

00:31:20,576 --> 00:31:21,746

times in what you did to recover.

:

00:31:21,986 --> 00:31:24,466

Paul: I'll tell you one that

comes to mind, but we've had

:

00:31:24,826 --> 00:31:25,666

events

:

00:31:25,816 --> 00:31:26,656

since then,

:

00:31:27,076 --> 00:31:28,756

that are just as difficult, but

:

00:31:29,306 --> 00:31:30,296

three years into the

:

00:31:30,296 --> 00:31:31,046

business,

:

00:31:31,946 --> 00:31:32,666

we got a wake up.

:

00:31:32,666 --> 00:31:33,081

call.

:

00:31:33,956 --> 00:31:38,096

We missed all of our covenants, with the

bank that we borrowed that money from.

:

00:31:38,996 --> 00:31:40,206

And they marched

:

00:31:40,206 --> 00:31:42,276

in basically, and they were black suits

:

00:31:42,806 --> 00:31:43,731

Jeff: You used to be one of 'em.

:

00:31:43,731 --> 00:31:43,851

Right,

:

00:31:44,096 --> 00:31:44,666

Paul: exactly.

:

00:31:45,326 --> 00:31:45,536

Yeah.

:

00:31:45,536 --> 00:31:45,686

So

:

00:31:45,736 --> 00:31:46,066

I knew.

:

00:31:46,066 --> 00:31:46,816

what they were thinking.

:

00:31:47,386 --> 00:31:47,816

And The

:

00:31:48,166 --> 00:31:51,316

specifics were that we, were,

it was our fourth acquisition.

:

00:31:51,856 --> 00:31:52,696

We were buying

:

00:31:53,116 --> 00:31:53,206

a

:

00:31:53,206 --> 00:31:54,646

Company that was three times

:

00:31:54,646 --> 00:31:59,686

bigger than called, McMillan,

blo de remember that And

:

00:31:59,686 --> 00:32:00,761

it was a Canadian company

:

00:32:01,661 --> 00:32:04,961

had an American division and

:

00:32:05,036 --> 00:32:05,216

George: those

:

00:32:05,216 --> 00:32:05,816

Canadians.

:

00:32:06,056 --> 00:32:06,586

Just wanna say,

:

00:32:07,486 --> 00:32:07,986

Paul: oh man,

:

00:32:08,506 --> 00:32:08,826

I agree.

:

00:32:08,896 --> 00:32:09,161

love those

:

00:32:10,146 --> 00:32:12,991

We bought the business and I

figured that it was losing a

:

00:32:12,991 --> 00:32:14,281

hundred thousand dollars a month.

:

00:32:14,371 --> 00:32:15,121

in cash,

:

00:32:15,631 --> 00:32:16,711

And I thought we'd turn around

:

00:32:16,711 --> 00:32:20,041

at two that's what I had on my pro forma.

:

00:32:20,641 --> 00:32:21,841

And paper's, a lot different.

:

00:32:21,841 --> 00:32:22,051

than what

:

00:32:22,051 --> 00:32:22,861

actually happens.

:

00:32:23,311 --> 00:32:24,576

It took us about 10 months.

:

00:32:25,441 --> 00:32:26,126

and we

:

00:32:26,126 --> 00:32:26,786

almost lost

:

00:32:26,786 --> 00:32:27,086

everything.

:

00:32:27,086 --> 00:32:30,326

This is after five years of

being in the business, And it

:

00:32:30,326 --> 00:32:31,526

turned into be a total.

:

00:32:32,913 --> 00:32:34,023

, See the economy.

:

00:32:34,023 --> 00:32:34,383

turned

:

00:32:34,383 --> 00:32:36,513

in the wrong and right after we bought

:

00:32:36,513 --> 00:32:36,633

the,

:

00:32:36,633 --> 00:32:38,133

business and

:

00:32:38,243 --> 00:32:38,693

we couldn't

:

00:32:38,693 --> 00:32:42,533

make the payments, The bank was

pissed The seller was pissed off.

:

00:32:42,923 --> 00:32:43,703

because , we didn't

:

00:32:43,703 --> 00:32:44,633

Buy 'em out completely.

:

00:32:44,633 --> 00:32:45,443

He carried a note.

:

00:32:46,053 --> 00:32:46,233

We were

:

00:32:46,233 --> 00:32:47,193

losing customers left

:

00:32:47,193 --> 00:32:47,463

and right.

:

00:32:47,513 --> 00:32:47,693

We

:

00:32:47,693 --> 00:32:48,503

moved into another

:

00:32:48,503 --> 00:32:52,273

operation where our guys moved

in with these other guys.

:

00:32:52,633 --> 00:32:53,803

and we clashed.

:

00:32:54,193 --> 00:32:54,883

They were a union.

:

00:32:54,883 --> 00:32:55,273

we broke.

:

00:32:55,273 --> 00:32:55,873

the union.

:

00:32:56,393 --> 00:32:56,923

And

:

00:32:57,683 --> 00:32:59,903

We had guys from our operation,

:

00:32:59,903 --> 00:33:00,023

that

:

00:33:00,033 --> 00:33:01,863

did not know how to run their machines,

:

00:33:02,403 --> 00:33:03,903

but knew how to run our orders

:

00:33:04,143 --> 00:33:05,133

And we had a hundred guys

:

00:33:05,133 --> 00:33:05,403

from their

:

00:33:05,403 --> 00:33:06,603

operation that could run

:

00:33:06,603 --> 00:33:08,613

their machines but didn't

know how to run our orders.

:

00:33:08,943 --> 00:33:09,933

So it was a total,

:

00:33:10,653 --> 00:33:11,163

shit show.

:

00:33:12,063 --> 00:33:13,253

And finally,

:

00:33:13,553 --> 00:33:15,443

We broke through it after about 10 months.

:

00:33:15,953 --> 00:33:17,213

Got things organized, but

:

00:33:17,213 --> 00:33:18,533

that was the closest.

:

00:33:18,533 --> 00:33:18,803

I think

:

00:33:18,803 --> 00:33:21,123

we've to blowing up the whole thing.

:

00:33:21,843 --> 00:33:22,203

And

:

00:33:22,653 --> 00:33:23,823

We've done that two or three times.

:

00:33:23,823 --> 00:33:24,243

since.

:

00:33:24,483 --> 00:33:26,103

Don't seem to learn from our mistakes.

:

00:33:27,003 --> 00:33:27,843

Jeff: But yet here we are.

:

00:33:27,933 --> 00:33:28,323

Paul: Yes.

:

00:33:29,043 --> 00:33:29,523

yeah.

:

00:33:29,673 --> 00:33:29,823

Yeah.

:

00:33:29,823 --> 00:33:30,923

Here we are still breathing.

:

00:33:31,023 --> 00:33:34,713

George: So has most of your growth

over the years come from acquisition or

:

00:33:34,713 --> 00:33:37,353

just from your reps just driving good

:

00:33:37,368 --> 00:33:38,508

Paul: No, it's a great question.

:

00:33:38,898 --> 00:33:41,228

I would say that most growth came from.

:

00:33:41,228 --> 00:33:42,403

acquisition up until COVID.

:

00:33:42,408 --> 00:33:42,518

Okay.

:

00:33:42,858 --> 00:33:43,148

George: Okay.

:

00:33:43,658 --> 00:33:45,653

Paul: And then COVID came in

and almost doubled the size

:

00:33:46,553 --> 00:33:50,693

George: Have you retained a lot of

that surge in new business from COVID?

:

00:33:51,023 --> 00:33:51,083

Yeah.

:

00:33:51,083 --> 00:33:53,963

A lot of those customers that maybe

came to you because their current

:

00:33:53,963 --> 00:33:56,153

provider couldn't provide you kept them,

:

00:33:56,408 --> 00:33:56,648

Paul: right?

:

00:33:56,948 --> 00:33:57,188

Yeah.

:

00:33:57,398 --> 00:33:59,583

And also our customers got busier.

:

00:34:00,163 --> 00:34:01,603

Jeff: That says a lot

for your business model.

:

00:34:01,603 --> 00:34:02,953

You talked about the extreme service.

:

00:34:02,953 --> 00:34:03,238

want to Yeah.

:

00:34:03,653 --> 00:34:05,148

Paul: they wanna deal with

us, which is a good thing.

:

00:34:05,198 --> 00:34:06,218

Yeah, absolutely.

:

00:34:06,318 --> 00:34:07,608

when you think about acquisitions,

:

00:34:07,608 --> 00:34:08,268

basically,

:

00:34:08,268 --> 00:34:08,538

in our

:

00:34:08,538 --> 00:34:09,527

case, with

:

00:34:09,527 --> 00:34:12,498

the exception, maybe four of 'em, where

we actually acquired the building too.

:

00:34:13,288 --> 00:34:13,947

Four or five.

:

00:34:14,428 --> 00:34:15,208

Most of 'em were just

:

00:34:15,208 --> 00:34:16,018

customer lists.

:

00:34:16,603 --> 00:34:17,203

And you

:

00:34:17,203 --> 00:34:21,463

hire some of the folks and then

take the customers and that's a win.

:

00:34:22,253 --> 00:34:22,822

the other ones,

:

00:34:22,822 --> 00:34:23,213

were ones

:

00:34:23,213 --> 00:34:26,433

that we bought a business in

Connecticut, much like ours, in

:

00:34:26,433 --> 00:34:28,263

a 200,000 square foot facility.

:

00:34:28,723 --> 00:34:29,473

broke the union

:

00:34:29,503 --> 00:34:30,013

there

:

00:34:30,103 --> 00:34:30,342

but

:

00:34:30,433 --> 00:34:31,333

blew up the business

:

00:34:31,333 --> 00:34:31,632

We just

:

00:34:31,632 --> 00:34:32,382

couldn't make it work.

:

00:34:32,382 --> 00:34:34,333

up there and it was very painful.

:

00:34:34,842 --> 00:34:35,743

set us back.

:

00:34:36,193 --> 00:34:36,672

years.

:

00:34:37,373 --> 00:34:37,523

You

:

00:34:37,523 --> 00:34:40,013

win and you lose, that's the game.

:

00:34:40,373 --> 00:34:41,243

when you win, it's great.

:

00:34:41,572 --> 00:34:42,563

When You lose, you just gotta.

:

00:34:42,563 --> 00:34:43,723

make sure you don't lose everything.

:

00:34:44,623 --> 00:34:48,913

George: Have you ever acquired a business

that was really local to your business?

:

00:34:48,913 --> 00:34:50,793

A competitor across the train tracks?

:

00:34:51,362 --> 00:34:51,453

Yes.

:

00:34:51,543 --> 00:34:55,783

So I was talking to a gentleman actually

this morning who's walking through that

:

00:34:55,783 --> 00:35:02,843

same journey and one of the things that

came up was how do you manage the new

:

00:35:02,843 --> 00:35:11,223

sales team with your existing sales team

when there might be some competition, or

:

00:35:11,283 --> 00:35:16,833

similar customers or similar territories

depending on how, you map out your sales

:

00:35:16,833 --> 00:35:18,273

plan and where they're allowed to go.

:

00:35:18,693 --> 00:35:21,513

What would you say to this person

who's about to maybe walk down

:

00:35:21,513 --> 00:35:25,743

that path and he's figuring out,

man, how am I gonna divvy up

:

00:35:26,463 --> 00:35:26,883

the mix

:

00:35:26,883 --> 00:35:30,633

of business with all these new

salespeople and existing salespeople?

:

00:35:30,688 --> 00:35:31,648

Paul: It's a sticky problem.

:

00:35:32,249 --> 00:35:32,398

is.

:

00:35:32,459 --> 00:35:33,019

' cause you gotta

:

00:35:33,019 --> 00:35:34,459

make sure those sales guys stay.

:

00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:35,219

That's

:

00:35:35,219 --> 00:35:35,339

what

:

00:35:35,339 --> 00:35:35,879

you're buying.

:

00:35:36,779 --> 00:35:37,139

So you gotta

:

00:35:37,139 --> 00:35:37,979

make 'em happy.

:

00:35:38,469 --> 00:35:39,639

Some of it's horse trading

:

00:35:40,359 --> 00:35:41,049

one-on-one,

:

00:35:41,195 --> 00:35:41,375

with

:

00:35:41,375 --> 00:35:41,855

each of 'em.

:

00:35:41,992 --> 00:35:44,212

Maybe at some point you get two

in a room, but I'd rather not

:

00:35:45,112 --> 00:35:45,832

one-on-one.

:

00:35:46,192 --> 00:35:47,422

Look, this is what, we can do.

:

00:35:47,782 --> 00:35:48,842

You got some overlap here.

:

00:35:48,842 --> 00:35:48,992

you

:

00:35:48,992 --> 00:35:51,407

might even, If there's a

difference product line.

:

00:35:51,407 --> 00:35:53,747

If somebody's selling packaging

and somebody's selling

:

00:35:54,077 --> 00:35:55,937

boxes, they might even be talking

:

00:35:55,937 --> 00:35:56,117

to two

:

00:35:56,117 --> 00:35:57,982

different but it's gotta be done

:

00:35:57,982 --> 00:35:58,852

very delicately.

:

00:35:59,002 --> 00:35:59,992

you have to keep the

:

00:35:59,992 --> 00:36:01,612

sales That's it.

:

00:36:01,792 --> 00:36:02,872

you just keep period.

:

00:36:03,422 --> 00:36:04,192

And Make it work.

:

00:36:05,092 --> 00:36:08,122

George: because the business can fade

very quickly if those reps leave.

:

00:36:08,347 --> 00:36:09,042

Paul: I had that happen.

:

00:36:09,802 --> 00:36:09,832

Okay.

:

00:36:09,832 --> 00:36:10,222

We bought a

:

00:36:10,222 --> 00:36:13,042

business, with 15 sales guys and

:

00:36:13,042 --> 00:36:14,092

13 of them left on.

:

00:36:14,092 --> 00:36:14,507

day one.

:

00:36:15,707 --> 00:36:16,997

Jeff: Honestly, it's

one of the most amazing.

:

00:36:16,997 --> 00:36:20,327

parts of The story that you and Peter

bring to our industry is, you didn't

:

00:36:20,327 --> 00:36:24,317

have a sales background in the box

industry, which is the most common

:

00:36:24,887 --> 00:36:26,417

entrepreneurial branch off that you see.

:

00:36:26,417 --> 00:36:28,517

you start with some orders, you

start with some key accounts.

:

00:36:28,727 --> 00:36:29,207

You didn't have

:

00:36:29,207 --> 00:36:29,447

that?

:

00:36:29,462 --> 00:36:29,702

Paul: No.

:

00:36:30,429 --> 00:36:30,602

business

:

00:36:30,842 --> 00:36:30,902

out.

:

00:36:30,902 --> 00:36:31,742

Jeff: it out after the

:

00:36:31,932 --> 00:36:36,102

Paul: That's, you look at guys that are

most successful starting sheet plants.

:

00:36:36,537 --> 00:36:38,097

The guys were in sales

:

00:36:38,482 --> 00:36:40,034

talking they brought

their customers, with 'em.

:

00:36:40,264 --> 00:36:40,714

That's the only

:

00:36:40,714 --> 00:36:41,314

way you can do it.

:

00:36:41,914 --> 00:36:42,124

There was

:

00:36:42,124 --> 00:36:44,494

a guy who was really a really good man who

:

00:36:44,494 --> 00:36:45,814

was in the industry for a long time,

:

00:36:46,174 --> 00:36:46,864

introduced me

:

00:36:46,864 --> 00:36:47,044

to,

:

00:36:47,554 --> 00:36:48,544

open book management.

:

00:36:48,814 --> 00:36:48,964

he

:

00:36:48,964 --> 00:36:49,144

was a

:

00:36:49,144 --> 00:36:49,624

production

:

00:36:49,624 --> 00:36:49,764

guy

:

00:36:50,664 --> 00:36:52,194

brilliant leader

:

00:36:52,944 --> 00:36:53,214

And

:

00:36:53,214 --> 00:36:53,794

He left

:

00:36:54,474 --> 00:36:56,214

working for us and tried

to start a sheep plant

:

00:36:56,664 --> 00:36:57,354

and he blew up his,

:

00:36:57,354 --> 00:36:57,834

nest egg

:

00:36:58,734 --> 00:36:59,064

and thing.

:

00:36:59,064 --> 00:36:59,754

Whole thing blew up.

:

00:36:59,994 --> 00:37:01,054

You gotta have the sales,

:

00:37:01,884 --> 00:37:02,154

gotta

:

00:37:02,154 --> 00:37:03,294

have the sales, right?

:

00:37:03,864 --> 00:37:05,064

And That's what he's buying.

:

00:37:05,874 --> 00:37:06,684

So that's the thing that

:

00:37:07,014 --> 00:37:09,490

He's gotta, he's gotta treasure

that,, make sure that works.

:

00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:09,850

And

:

00:37:09,850 --> 00:37:10,150

it's not.

:

00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:10,570

easy, you,

:

00:37:10,570 --> 00:37:11,080

asked me what the

:

00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,420

solution is, it's gonna

be on an individual by

:

00:37:13,420 --> 00:37:13,820

individual

:

00:37:14,270 --> 00:37:14,720

George: It does.

:

00:37:14,770 --> 00:37:18,730

it doesn't take away from

the anxiety that's ahead,

:

00:37:19,010 --> 00:37:21,877

. 'cause most times, when you talk to

people you said, you bought a business in

:

00:37:21,877 --> 00:37:25,417

Connecticut, or Baltimore, , those sales

reps most likely aren't gonna cross paths

:

00:37:25,417 --> 00:37:25,777

and cause

:

00:37:25,777 --> 00:37:26,407

any issues.

:

00:37:26,917 --> 00:37:29,647

But when you're buying

another business in the same

:

00:37:29,647 --> 00:37:31,387

community, which we did

:

00:37:31,387 --> 00:37:34,427

then, that's gonna pose

some challenges and

:

00:37:34,427 --> 00:37:34,727

Paul: yeah.

:

00:37:35,117 --> 00:37:35,387

Because

:

00:37:35,657 --> 00:37:37,817

these guys might have this equally,

:

00:37:38,217 --> 00:37:39,207

As strong a relationship

:

00:37:39,257 --> 00:37:40,277

With one buyer.

:

00:37:41,057 --> 00:37:41,297

George: Yeah.

:

00:37:41,593 --> 00:37:41,923

Paul: but there's,

:

00:37:41,923 --> 00:37:42,193

ways,

:

00:37:42,613 --> 00:37:44,683

Jeff: how about we give him a little

bit of business break and dive into

:

00:37:44,683 --> 00:37:45,973

some other areas of interest here?

:

00:37:45,973 --> 00:37:48,313

I know that him and his wife

Elizabeth are a philanthropist.

:

00:37:48,313 --> 00:37:49,903

I know they do quite

a bit in charity work.

:

00:37:50,303 --> 00:37:52,913

Could you just share as much

as you're willing, what you

:

00:37:52,913 --> 00:37:53,153

guys

:

00:37:53,153 --> 00:37:53,783

Paul: Yeah, sure.

:

00:37:53,813 --> 00:37:55,013

We got involved with,

:

00:37:55,073 --> 00:37:55,823

a Group

:

00:37:56,693 --> 00:37:57,113

called

:

00:37:57,113 --> 00:37:58,043

Hope for Children.

:

00:37:58,043 --> 00:38:00,803

that was in Ethiopia, Jeff, where you were

:

00:38:00,803 --> 00:38:01,193

Very

:

00:38:01,193 --> 00:38:02,543

generous with us as well.

:

00:38:03,123 --> 00:38:03,273

I'd

:

00:38:03,273 --> 00:38:04,053

go back to,

:

00:38:04,053 --> 00:38:04,383

our.

:

00:38:04,443 --> 00:38:06,513

suppliers who,

:

00:38:06,583 --> 00:38:07,663

Our, we had a buyer

:

00:38:07,843 --> 00:38:08,923

who was a real pro.

:

00:38:09,203 --> 00:38:10,313

Who's semi-retired

:

00:38:10,313 --> 00:38:10,493

now.

:

00:38:10,493 --> 00:38:11,123

He's living at home.

:

00:38:11,123 --> 00:38:13,133

We're doing his retirement

thing, but we still

:

00:38:13,283 --> 00:38:13,703

work with,

:

00:38:14,603 --> 00:38:16,013

and he used to get nervous.

:

00:38:16,013 --> 00:38:17,873

when I talked to suppliers about

:

00:38:17,993 --> 00:38:19,283

these charities because

:

00:38:20,063 --> 00:38:21,143

I had one supplier.

:

00:38:21,293 --> 00:38:22,563

I think he was Ink supplier,

:

00:38:23,393 --> 00:38:23,603

and I

:

00:38:23,603 --> 00:38:25,303

called him and I said can you help me?

:

00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:25,783

He said, Paul,

:

00:38:25,783 --> 00:38:26,563

We don't really do that.

:

00:38:26,613 --> 00:38:27,243

And I said

:

00:38:27,243 --> 00:38:28,083

Jimmy, do me a favor.

:

00:38:28,983 --> 00:38:29,373

take a look

:

00:38:29,373 --> 00:38:29,703

at what we

:

00:38:29,703 --> 00:38:29,973

bought.

:

00:38:30,926 --> 00:38:31,916

I mean, I basically

:

00:38:31,916 --> 00:38:32,556

mafi at him.

:

00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:34,585

Jeff: he did it on a video

call while we had his boxing

:

00:38:34,585 --> 00:38:34,950

gloves on.

:

00:38:35,005 --> 00:38:35,056

George: Right,

:

00:38:35,106 --> 00:38:35,476

Paul: And I did it

:

00:38:35,526 --> 00:38:38,926

while, just because of these

charities I wanted to Help the kids.

:

00:38:39,826 --> 00:38:41,596

And then we went to Ethiopia.

:

00:38:41,676 --> 00:38:42,276

Twice.

:

00:38:42,966 --> 00:38:43,596

10, and 12.

:

00:38:44,376 --> 00:38:45,276

and I'll tell you something

:

00:38:45,326 --> 00:38:46,016

The first day

:

00:38:46,021 --> 00:38:46,586

or two

:

00:38:46,796 --> 00:38:48,776

that we went to Ethiopia

on our first trip,

:

00:38:49,136 --> 00:38:50,066

it knocked the wind out.

:

00:38:50,066 --> 00:38:50,456

of all of

:

00:38:50,966 --> 00:38:51,206

George: Right.

:

00:38:51,490 --> 00:38:52,900

Paul: It was so sad.

:

00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:53,950

To see how,

:

00:38:53,950 --> 00:38:57,750

these kids were living and it gave us some

:

00:38:58,330 --> 00:38:58,990

Comfort that

:

00:38:58,990 --> 00:38:59,200

we were

:

00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,310

over there helping 'em, but

:

00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,840

it's an impossible and it's so sad.

:

00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:04,140

But

:

00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:07,356

I think my wife will tell

you that we helped 900 kids

:

00:39:08,096 --> 00:39:08,306

Get

:

00:39:08,306 --> 00:39:08,486

through

:

00:39:08,486 --> 00:39:09,086

school.

:

00:39:09,506 --> 00:39:10,406

We provided

:

00:39:10,406 --> 00:39:11,096

tutoring,

:

00:39:11,996 --> 00:39:19,376

food, shelter, and medical for a lot

of kids in Ethiopia, they Had a, AIDS

:

00:39:19,376 --> 00:39:21,536

famine that knocked out a lot of parents.

:

00:39:22,136 --> 00:39:23,416

So these young kids were all

:

00:39:23,416 --> 00:39:23,806

warfarin.

:

00:39:23,869 --> 00:39:26,069

And, I made the mistake of grabbing

:

00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:29,729

a bunch of food at the

hotel we're staying In

:

00:39:30,014 --> 00:39:30,314

George: Yep.

:

00:39:30,749 --> 00:39:31,979

Paul: and I handed it out,

:

00:39:32,879 --> 00:39:33,269

to these

:

00:39:33,269 --> 00:39:34,169

kids on the street

:

00:39:35,069 --> 00:39:35,429

and

:

00:39:35,699 --> 00:39:35,879

they

:

00:39:35,879 --> 00:39:38,999

got beat up by other people

who wanted the bread.

:

00:39:38,999 --> 00:39:40,439

They just, it was like a feeding

:

00:39:41,054 --> 00:39:42,554

And I never did that again.

:

00:39:42,644 --> 00:39:43,664

obviously, but,

:

00:39:43,794 --> 00:39:44,984

It felt what a dumb ass.

:

00:39:45,034 --> 00:39:46,114

You just wouldn't imagine.

:

00:39:46,234 --> 00:39:46,534

Yeah.

:

00:39:46,644 --> 00:39:47,544

What it does.

:

00:39:47,634 --> 00:39:48,774

These kids haven't eaten forever

:

00:39:49,174 --> 00:39:51,514

We experienced a lot of Third

:

00:39:51,514 --> 00:39:51,934

world

:

00:39:52,594 --> 00:39:53,114

Poverty.

:

00:39:54,014 --> 00:39:54,764

that was

:

00:39:54,764 --> 00:39:55,604

beyond anything

:

00:39:55,604 --> 00:39:56,234

we've ever seen.

:

00:39:56,234 --> 00:39:58,514

And I think honestly, it was

good for all of us, not just

:

00:39:58,514 --> 00:39:59,054

our kids,

:

00:39:59,594 --> 00:40:00,134

to see that.

:

00:40:00,959 --> 00:40:02,279

George: what was the connection?

:

00:40:02,389 --> 00:40:04,279

There's a lot of charities to get behind.

:

00:40:04,369 --> 00:40:06,139

There's a lot of good

people out there doing great

:

00:40:06,139 --> 00:40:06,609

work in

:

00:40:06,609 --> 00:40:08,349

helping them marginalized and caring

:

00:40:08,349 --> 00:40:09,999

for those that need it.

:

00:40:10,249 --> 00:40:13,099

How did you choose to

support this organization?

:

00:40:13,289 --> 00:40:13,709

Paul: my older

:

00:40:13,709 --> 00:40:14,189

daughter

:

00:40:15,089 --> 00:40:16,109

was one of

:

00:40:16,109 --> 00:40:17,639

the teachers in her school, had

:

00:40:17,639 --> 00:40:20,049

this organization Who

built it and started,

:

00:40:20,049 --> 00:40:20,499

it, ran it.

:

00:40:21,129 --> 00:40:21,759

And she

:

00:40:21,759 --> 00:40:22,149

came home

:

00:40:22,149 --> 00:40:25,809

one night and said, mommy, I want to go to

:

00:40:25,989 --> 00:40:26,739

Ethiopia.

:

00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:28,068

to help

:

00:40:28,458 --> 00:40:28,938

Children

:

00:40:29,748 --> 00:40:30,228

And my

:

00:40:30,228 --> 00:40:30,678

wife who?

:

00:40:30,678 --> 00:40:33,168

hates to fly, said

:

00:40:33,218 --> 00:40:34,718

oh my really?

:

00:40:35,618 --> 00:40:36,398

And I said I'll

:

00:40:36,398 --> 00:40:36,518

go

:

00:40:36,518 --> 00:40:36,773

with you.

:

00:40:37,568 --> 00:40:37,748

And

:

00:40:37,748 --> 00:40:39,068

Isabella, our younger daughter.

:

00:40:39,068 --> 00:40:40,138

by four years said I

:

00:40:40,138 --> 00:40:42,478

wanna go and My wife,

:

00:40:42,478 --> 00:40:42,718

looked

:

00:40:42,718 --> 00:40:44,068

at the three of us and said I guess

:

00:40:44,068 --> 00:40:44,158

we're

:

00:40:44,158 --> 00:40:44,578

all going.

:

00:40:45,328 --> 00:40:45,598

George: Okay.

:

00:40:45,718 --> 00:40:46,948

Paul: So that's how that gets started,

:

00:40:47,108 --> 00:40:47,978

And we got out there.

:

00:40:48,488 --> 00:40:48,848

there's Another

:

00:40:48,848 --> 00:40:49,688

charity I'm working on

:

00:40:49,688 --> 00:40:50,078

right now,

:

00:40:50,078 --> 00:40:50,528

which is

:

00:40:50,578 --> 00:40:51,748

again for kids

:

00:40:51,968 --> 00:40:55,958

who are sick Azure, Baja

And we're doing some things.

:

00:40:55,958 --> 00:40:56,288

Yeah.

:

00:40:57,098 --> 00:40:58,628

Thanks for bringing that up, Jeff.

:

00:40:58,688 --> 00:41:00,278

I think one of the things

you can think about

:

00:41:01,178 --> 00:41:03,118

is where do you think you'll leave.

:

00:41:03,118 --> 00:41:08,818

a mark or Of all the good things I

think we've done for our people those

:

00:41:08,818 --> 00:41:08,968

two

:

00:41:08,968 --> 00:41:10,943

charities might have

the largest footprint.

:

00:41:11,843 --> 00:41:12,314

Just helping.

:

00:41:12,314 --> 00:41:12,929

those kids.

:

00:41:13,229 --> 00:41:14,139

Jeff: Thank you for sharing that.

:

00:41:14,189 --> 00:41:16,439

You and so many people in the

industry are backing different

:

00:41:16,439 --> 00:41:17,609

charities and are really generous.

:

00:41:17,609 --> 00:41:18,299

That's another great

:

00:41:18,299 --> 00:41:18,839

thing about,

:

00:41:19,289 --> 00:41:22,979

George: it, comes up in almost

every podcast, and really it does.

:

00:41:22,979 --> 00:41:25,149

And you don't expect it

sometimes from people.

:

00:41:25,149 --> 00:41:30,129

But I think what's really great

about our industry is man, we like

:

00:41:30,129 --> 00:41:33,319

to have a good time and definitely

that comes out at a lot of these

:

00:41:33,319 --> 00:41:34,669

meetings where we come together.

:

00:41:34,669 --> 00:41:37,349

But when you get to hear the story behind

:

00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:37,439

the

:

00:41:37,439 --> 00:41:44,649

people and there's deep care and passion,

not just for the business, but for the

:

00:41:44,649 --> 00:41:46,749

staff that they employ, the community

:

00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:47,289

in

:

00:41:47,289 --> 00:41:47,709

which their

:

00:41:47,709 --> 00:41:48,669

business is in.

:

00:41:49,089 --> 00:41:51,679

And very generous people in this industry.

:

00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:56,899

Extremely generous beyond what I

think many people would expect.

:

00:41:56,904 --> 00:41:57,194

Yeah.

:

00:41:57,244 --> 00:41:59,079

Jeff: With time, talent

and money, we're generous.

:

00:41:59,129 --> 00:42:01,319

industry within the industry itself.

:

00:42:01,529 --> 00:42:03,779

As I mentioned earlier A

ICC is able to pull it.

:

00:42:03,779 --> 00:42:07,289

together, but there's So many people

willing to help and mentor and be involved

:

00:42:07,289 --> 00:42:08,549

and put some of these schools together.

:

00:42:08,939 --> 00:42:11,609

Likewise externally, Our industry

has a big footprint in doing good

:

00:42:11,609 --> 00:42:14,699

things in the US and around the

world with the money that's made.

:

00:42:14,749 --> 00:42:15,559

I'm very proud of that.

:

00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:19,039

And to George's point, just about

every podcast that comes up in some.

:

00:42:19,039 --> 00:42:19,579

capacity.

:

00:42:19,579 --> 00:42:22,579

And I was, I was aware of your work and

what your family does, and it's amazing

:

00:42:22,579 --> 00:42:25,999

and thought it was important to have

that on the podcast, so Yeah, you bet.

:

00:42:26,509 --> 00:42:26,719

Paul: Yeah.

:

00:42:26,794 --> 00:42:27,004

. George: Hey,

:

00:42:27,004 --> 00:42:27,274

Paul.

:

00:42:27,274 --> 00:42:31,094

Maybe if we change gears, we want to talk

a little bit about succession planning.

:

00:42:31,434 --> 00:42:33,384

You've been in the business for 40 years.

:

00:42:33,764 --> 00:42:36,344

You don't have kids in the

business at the moment.

:

00:42:36,724 --> 00:42:41,774

But, have you put any thought into what

the next 40 years for this business

:

00:42:41,774 --> 00:42:43,644

looks like and where it's gonna go?

:

00:42:44,544 --> 00:42:45,144

Paul: You are right.

:

00:42:45,144 --> 00:42:47,544

our children on both

sides are not interested.

:

00:42:47,904 --> 00:42:48,864

Which surprises me

:

00:42:48,864 --> 00:42:50,074

a little bit because boxes.

:

00:42:50,209 --> 00:42:50,809

really Cool.

:

00:42:50,869 --> 00:42:51,289

Come on.

:

00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:51,899

It's done.

:

00:42:51,899 --> 00:42:52,169

absolutely.

:

00:42:52,289 --> 00:42:56,349

Remember the, in the

graduate plastics, no boxes.

:

00:42:57,259 --> 00:42:58,769

I've been interested

:

00:42:58,769 --> 00:42:59,879

in the blue zones.

:

00:43:00,779 --> 00:43:02,219

Around the country, around the world.

:

00:43:02,489 --> 00:43:02,759

Okay.

:

00:43:02,819 --> 00:43:03,989

These are zones where,

:

00:43:04,389 --> 00:43:06,309

They have a largest population of

:

00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:07,719

people over a hundred years old.

:

00:43:08,013 --> 00:43:08,224

George: Okay.

:

00:43:08,929 --> 00:43:10,984

Paul: They're called, by the

way, they're called Centenarians.

:

00:43:11,839 --> 00:43:12,959

Jeff: There's a special on Netflix about

:

00:43:13,234 --> 00:43:14,224

Paul: Yeah, exactly.

:

00:43:14,224 --> 00:43:17,794

And they interviewed one

woman who was 117 years old.

:

00:43:17,794 --> 00:43:19,114

and said, what's your Secret,

:

00:43:20,014 --> 00:43:20,224

She

:

00:43:20,224 --> 00:43:20,794

said, I just

:

00:43:20,794 --> 00:43:21,304

keep working.

:

00:43:22,204 --> 00:43:23,044

I never stop working.

:

00:43:23,944 --> 00:43:27,064

I think I'm in that pool where there's

:

00:43:27,064 --> 00:43:28,924

always a chance we

might sell the business,

:

00:43:29,249 --> 00:43:29,519

but I'm

:

00:43:29,519 --> 00:43:30,059

Having fun.

:

00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:30,939

I'm having fun.

:

00:43:31,419 --> 00:43:32,649

The day to day.

:

00:43:33,069 --> 00:43:36,459

is more interesting today than it

was 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

:

00:43:36,789 --> 00:43:37,179

For me,

:

00:43:37,689 --> 00:43:37,809

The

:

00:43:37,809 --> 00:43:38,739

stakes are higher

:

00:43:39,069 --> 00:43:40,779

You win more, but

:

00:43:40,839 --> 00:43:41,439

you can lose more

:

00:43:41,439 --> 00:43:41,799

too.

:

00:43:42,189 --> 00:43:42,429

But,

:

00:43:42,429 --> 00:43:46,089

After all this time in the business,

we've gotten pretty good at it.

:

00:43:46,629 --> 00:43:47,649

Still screw up.

:

00:43:48,549 --> 00:43:51,869

which, drives me crazy to

make that same mistake twice.

:

00:43:52,349 --> 00:43:53,179

But I like it.

:

00:43:53,449 --> 00:43:54,139

I like what I'm doing.

:

00:43:54,529 --> 00:43:55,759

I think My brother might

:

00:43:55,759 --> 00:43:58,369

be more interested in moving on than I am.

:

00:43:58,819 --> 00:44:00,049

But he looks like he's

:

00:44:00,049 --> 00:44:00,769

starting to have some,

:

00:44:00,769 --> 00:44:01,979

fun again too, up

:

00:44:02,189 --> 00:44:02,639

goes up and

:

00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:02,819

down.

:

00:44:02,819 --> 00:44:03,479

over 40 years.

:

00:44:03,479 --> 00:44:03,749

So

:

00:44:04,139 --> 00:44:04,559

I think

:

00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:05,189

that at this

:

00:44:05,189 --> 00:44:07,229

time we don't have a plan for succession.

:

00:44:07,949 --> 00:44:08,129

But

:

00:44:08,129 --> 00:44:09,419

The plan would be to stick

:

00:44:10,319 --> 00:44:11,429

if I could figure out a

:

00:44:11,429 --> 00:44:11,879

way.

:

00:44:12,509 --> 00:44:13,229

to work

:

00:44:13,949 --> 00:44:15,089

two or three days a week.

:

00:44:15,299 --> 00:44:16,709

or Just work to 12 o'clock.

:

00:44:16,809 --> 00:44:16,839

Okay.

:

00:44:16,909 --> 00:44:18,049

And then retire.

:

00:44:18,229 --> 00:44:18,859

Halftime.

:

00:44:19,409 --> 00:44:19,679

Just

:

00:44:20,579 --> 00:44:23,099

travel more, do more things,

but still stay involved.

:

00:44:23,309 --> 00:44:23,399

Yeah,

:

00:44:23,459 --> 00:44:24,059

that would be good.

:

00:44:24,149 --> 00:44:25,379

That'd be the best succession,

:

00:44:25,379 --> 00:44:25,829

I could do,

:

00:44:26,729 --> 00:44:26,879

Yeah.

:

00:44:27,539 --> 00:44:27,959

for sure.

:

00:44:28,139 --> 00:44:29,159

Jeff: If you figure it out, I'd love to

:

00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:29,369

Learn.

:

00:44:29,369 --> 00:44:29,579

about

:

00:44:29,579 --> 00:44:30,309

Paul: Yeah, no kidding, right?

:

00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:30,579

Jeff: sounds

:

00:44:30,605 --> 00:44:30,804

George: awesome.

:

00:44:30,884 --> 00:44:31,754

You know what's interesting?

:

00:44:31,754 --> 00:44:35,504

I did talk to a gentleman yesterday,

unfortunately, I forget his name, but

:

00:44:35,624 --> 00:44:35,774

it

:

00:44:35,774 --> 00:44:37,274

was an interesting business model.

:

00:44:37,814 --> 00:44:43,394

I'm seeing these like company startup,

where they're like outsourcing A

:

00:44:43,424 --> 00:44:47,444

CFO or a CEO on a part-time basis.

:

00:44:47,834 --> 00:44:48,914

Just whatever you need.

:

00:44:49,334 --> 00:44:50,564

So if you needed someone to fill

:

00:44:50,564 --> 00:44:51,134

the gap

:

00:44:51,404 --> 00:44:52,124

while you

:

00:44:52,179 --> 00:44:52,404

work

:

00:44:52,404 --> 00:44:53,214

part-time, yeah,

:

00:44:53,544 --> 00:44:55,104

you could actually hire someone.

:

00:44:55,104 --> 00:44:57,144

'cause you don't wanna hire someone

full-time when you're gonna be

:

00:44:57,144 --> 00:44:59,634

working part-time doing that role.

:

00:44:59,814 --> 00:45:03,564

You could actually hire

a CEO for just the hours.

:

00:45:04,299 --> 00:45:07,569

You're not gonna be in that position,

obviously, you need to develop a

:

00:45:07,809 --> 00:45:09,039

great amount of trust with that

:

00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:09,519

person.

:

00:45:10,269 --> 00:45:10,349

Yeah, of course.

:

00:45:10,349 --> 00:45:10,789

But, um,

:

00:45:10,789 --> 00:45:12,649

It's a kind of a cool business concept.

:

00:45:12,649 --> 00:45:16,419

It's Hey, I'm A CEO, I'm looking

for business or a CFO, I'm trying to

:

00:45:16,419 --> 00:45:19,899

support you, but if you only need me

two days a week, I'm good with that.

:

00:45:20,409 --> 00:45:23,049

So that was an interesting concept

with, do you think that would

:

00:45:23,049 --> 00:45:23,769

interest you?

:

00:45:23,769 --> 00:45:23,779

No.

:

00:45:23,779 --> 00:45:23,869

Think

:

00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:25,589

Paul: To me.

:

00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:26,669

however,

:

00:45:27,509 --> 00:45:29,999

If maybe that's where

you go to get somebody

:

00:45:29,999 --> 00:45:31,439

to replace you, you're

:

00:45:31,439 --> 00:45:34,329

still working two or three days,

but that guy's gotta work 60 hours.

:

00:45:34,329 --> 00:45:34,629

a week.

:

00:45:34,929 --> 00:45:35,139

Okay.

:

00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:35,289

You

:

00:45:35,289 --> 00:45:35,349

know

:

00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:35,649

what I mean?

:

00:45:36,549 --> 00:45:36,879

It would be

:

00:45:36,879 --> 00:45:37,179

a big

:

00:45:37,179 --> 00:45:37,689

disconnect.

:

00:45:37,689 --> 00:45:39,069

That person has to be involved

:

00:45:39,069 --> 00:45:39,489

all the time.

:

00:45:39,489 --> 00:45:40,199

I'll do that

:

00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:40,769

if I could.

:

00:45:40,819 --> 00:45:41,029

Jeff: Yeah.

:

00:45:41,029 --> 00:45:42,049

it's an interesting concept.

:

00:45:42,049 --> 00:45:44,149

I just don't know where you get the

quality of person that would be willing

:

00:45:44,149 --> 00:45:45,769

to come in and work parttime like that.

:

00:45:45,769 --> 00:45:49,129

Somebody that wants to be a true CEO,

they don't wanna work 20 hours a week.

:

00:45:49,129 --> 00:45:50,809

They wanna come in and they

wanna run the business.

:

00:45:51,049 --> 00:45:51,859

Have that culture,

:

00:45:52,409 --> 00:45:53,849

But C-F-O-C-F-O,

:

00:45:53,989 --> 00:45:54,349

George: CFO.

:

00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,729

I haven't seen it done, but it was an

:

00:45:56,729 --> 00:45:57,149

interesting

:

00:45:57,149 --> 00:45:57,869

concept, just

:

00:45:58,004 --> 00:45:58,304

Jeff: I'll run

:

00:45:58,304 --> 00:45:58,514

half?

:

00:45:58,514 --> 00:45:58,784

yours.

:

00:45:58,784 --> 00:45:58,879

I'm,

:

00:45:59,579 --> 00:46:01,109

Paul: That'll make things

really complicated.

:

00:46:01,989 --> 00:46:03,069

Jeff: I thought simplify.

:

00:46:03,279 --> 00:46:03,759

We're trying.

:

00:46:03,854 --> 00:46:05,804

but, Hey, sent an our end.

:

00:46:05,804 --> 00:46:06,434

You brought that up.

:

00:46:06,434 --> 00:46:08,324

And I know you have an extreme

commitment to your health.

:

00:46:08,324 --> 00:46:10,904

You've done some amazing things,

and I've seen you in the gym and

:

00:46:11,324 --> 00:46:13,634

it sounds like you wanna live to be

a hundred and be on that Netflix,

:

00:46:13,714 --> 00:46:14,524

documentary as well.

:

00:46:14,524 --> 00:46:16,964

Tell us a little bit about if you're

willing, what's your day look like?

:

00:46:16,964 --> 00:46:18,944

what your week look and how

you take care of yourself.

:

00:46:19,104 --> 00:46:19,434

So you can

:

00:46:19,644 --> 00:46:23,634

maintain this high level of performance

that you have and stress and

:

00:46:23,649 --> 00:46:23,709

Paul: all

:

00:46:23,769 --> 00:46:23,889

Yeah.

:

00:46:23,889 --> 00:46:24,579

Well, thanks Jeff.

:

00:46:24,729 --> 00:46:24,819

Yeah.

:

00:46:24,879 --> 00:46:25,719

I love sports.

:

00:46:25,769 --> 00:46:26,429

I'm actually

:

00:46:26,609 --> 00:46:27,449

going to get

:

00:46:27,449 --> 00:46:28,409

a epidural

:

00:46:28,829 --> 00:46:29,339

next

:

00:46:29,399 --> 00:46:29,909

Monday.

:

00:46:29,999 --> 00:46:30,869

morning with

:

00:46:30,949 --> 00:46:32,629

some other chemicals

:

00:46:32,899 --> 00:46:35,509

hormones fixed in there because my back,

:

00:46:35,939 --> 00:46:36,149

It's

:

00:46:36,149 --> 00:46:36,869

inoperable.

:

00:46:37,694 --> 00:46:39,014

I got five bad discs

:

00:46:39,014 --> 00:46:39,824

They're all crushed.

:

00:46:39,824 --> 00:46:40,064

I got

:

00:46:40,064 --> 00:46:42,234

stenosis, scoliosis, I'm

:

00:46:42,234 --> 00:46:42,714

Sure I got

:

00:46:42,714 --> 00:46:43,224

measles.

:

00:46:43,224 --> 00:46:43,644

and everything

:

00:46:43,644 --> 00:46:44,964

back there, it's a mess.

:

00:46:45,564 --> 00:46:48,344

So hopefully that will do it

and I can do more fun stuff.

:

00:46:48,824 --> 00:46:50,384

But you know it, right now I'd

:

00:46:50,384 --> 00:46:51,194

like to play golf.

:

00:46:51,224 --> 00:46:52,364

Can't play much 'cause I

:

00:46:52,364 --> 00:46:53,024

pay for it

:

00:46:53,114 --> 00:46:54,689

for two or three to four days afterwards.

:

00:46:55,464 --> 00:46:55,614

And

:

00:46:55,614 --> 00:46:56,844

I'm getting worse and worse.

:

00:46:57,114 --> 00:46:59,284

In fact, after in the 19th hole

:

00:46:59,854 --> 00:47:02,174

when we're have a couple

sips and looking back.

:

00:47:03,074 --> 00:47:04,809

I honestly wonder if I ever was an athlete

:

00:47:05,709 --> 00:47:08,994

because I played so poorly

there's no skillset,

:

00:47:09,984 --> 00:47:10,164

playing

:

00:47:10,164 --> 00:47:10,644

There you go.

:

00:47:10,744 --> 00:47:11,134

exactly.

:

00:47:11,134 --> 00:47:13,094

And I think we're in that

league right now but I'd love

:

00:47:13,094 --> 00:47:13,814

to be able to do that.

:

00:47:13,964 --> 00:47:14,114

and

:

00:47:14,114 --> 00:47:14,264

then

:

00:47:14,314 --> 00:47:14,644

Other

:

00:47:14,884 --> 00:47:15,184

things.

:

00:47:15,184 --> 00:47:18,694

I love to be able to play squash

again or maybe try pickleball.

:

00:47:19,334 --> 00:47:20,084

But right now

:

00:47:20,084 --> 00:47:20,744

what I do is all

:

00:47:20,744 --> 00:47:21,104

the boring

:

00:47:21,104 --> 00:47:21,784

stuff, I'll

:

00:47:21,784 --> 00:47:22,354

swim.

:

00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:24,039

I'll get

:

00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:25,239

in a, on the elliptical

:

00:47:26,119 --> 00:47:28,129

Maybe on the bike and it's all HIIT stuff.

:

00:47:28,399 --> 00:47:28,969

You familiar with?

:

00:47:28,969 --> 00:47:29,089

Hi.

:

00:47:29,569 --> 00:47:30,379

High intensity.

:

00:47:30,439 --> 00:47:30,619

Yeah.

:

00:47:30,799 --> 00:47:33,599

So you get your heart

rate up and and I got this

:

00:47:34,289 --> 00:47:37,489

guy that is a diet and fitness coach, he's

:

00:47:37,489 --> 00:47:38,509

my favorite asshole.

:

00:47:39,229 --> 00:47:39,469

right?

:

00:47:40,369 --> 00:47:41,179

And he just gets,

:

00:47:41,179 --> 00:47:41,959

in your face

:

00:47:42,499 --> 00:47:42,979

sometimes

:

00:47:42,979 --> 00:47:44,809

I gotta give him the Heisman,

I gotta push him away.

:

00:47:44,809 --> 00:47:46,829

with a, but he's really helpful.

:

00:47:46,979 --> 00:47:47,969

and he's a good man.

:

00:47:48,029 --> 00:47:48,269

But,

:

00:47:48,989 --> 00:47:49,739

So he helps.

:

00:47:49,739 --> 00:47:53,049

But, I, I've gone heli

skiing for the last 25 years

:

00:47:53,949 --> 00:47:54,639

and the Canadian

:

00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:55,539

Rockies, right.

:

00:47:55,539 --> 00:47:55,779

beautiful

:

00:47:56,109 --> 00:47:56,769

British Columbia.

:

00:47:56,979 --> 00:48:02,469

And I, I'd hate to stop that, but I

had two ankle replacements two years

:

00:48:02,469 --> 00:48:03,729

ago, so I'm gonna start off again.

:

00:48:03,729 --> 00:48:05,109

This, you just beat the hell outta.

:

00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:05,619

my body.

:

00:48:05,769 --> 00:48:06,114

And I'm sure

:

00:48:06,114 --> 00:48:06,304

that

:

00:48:06,999 --> 00:48:07,269

there are

:

00:48:07,269 --> 00:48:09,969

many out there that are beating

their body up as much as I have,

:

00:48:10,269 --> 00:48:11,739

but they don't have a genetic.

:

00:48:12,099 --> 00:48:13,749

Predilection for body failure.

:

00:48:13,869 --> 00:48:16,449

So mine is, so I'm starting to replace

:

00:48:16,449 --> 00:48:16,779

stuff

:

00:48:17,423 --> 00:48:17,589

that's the

:

00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:17,609

Irish half.

:

00:48:17,609 --> 00:48:17,889

The Italian's

:

00:48:19,149 --> 00:48:19,959

Oh, absolutely.

:

00:48:20,299 --> 00:48:21,649

I agree with that actually.

:

00:48:22,009 --> 00:48:23,629

But the Irish side's more fun,

:

00:48:24,407 --> 00:48:24,469

sure.

:

00:48:24,579 --> 00:48:26,439

But I've had both ankles replaced.

:

00:48:26,739 --> 00:48:28,689

I think the next step would be knees

:

00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:29,439

and then

:

00:48:29,439 --> 00:48:33,359

shoulders, and then I'm gonna

look for maybe a new lobe, get

:

00:48:33,359 --> 00:48:34,979

something replaced in my brain.

:

00:48:34,979 --> 00:48:36,729

But other than that,

:

00:48:36,779 --> 00:48:37,349

Things are good.

:

00:48:37,949 --> 00:48:38,429

Things are good.

:

00:48:39,059 --> 00:48:41,589

I, working out now, I try

to keep up with my wife.

:

00:48:41,589 --> 00:48:43,929

She walks nine and a

half, to 10 miles every

:

00:48:43,929 --> 00:48:44,319

Day and

:

00:48:44,319 --> 00:48:46,839

never gives up Rain, snow,

:

00:48:47,139 --> 00:48:47,499

heat.

:

00:48:48,189 --> 00:48:48,669

she's out

:

00:48:48,669 --> 00:48:48,909

Doing.

:

00:48:48,909 --> 00:48:49,059

it.

:

00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:51,079

That, that's a big motivator for me.

:

00:48:51,079 --> 00:48:52,079

I've been i'll

:

00:48:52,129 --> 00:48:52,759

the swimming

:

00:48:52,759 --> 00:48:53,209

thing.

:

00:48:53,569 --> 00:48:53,779

You

:

00:48:53,869 --> 00:48:55,609

Jeff: did the Chesapeake,

we read something about

:

00:48:55,609 --> 00:48:55,819

that.

:

00:48:55,819 --> 00:48:56,089

Paul: Yeah.

:

00:48:56,179 --> 00:48:57,199

Jeff: just a couple of minutes.

:

00:48:57,199 --> 00:48:58,099

What was that you did?

:

00:48:58,279 --> 00:49:00,019

Paul: It was a four and

a half mile swim across

:

00:49:00,019 --> 00:49:00,649

Chesapeake Bay.

:

00:49:00,649 --> 00:49:00,739

Nice.

:

00:49:01,729 --> 00:49:04,189

And I did it eight times in one day.

:

00:49:04,729 --> 00:49:06,259

Jeff: Are you wearing

anything in case you'd start

:

00:49:06,619 --> 00:49:06,919

Paul: No.

:

00:49:07,049 --> 00:49:07,349

No.

:

00:49:07,354 --> 00:49:07,504

Did you

:

00:49:07,504 --> 00:49:07,664

do that?

:

00:49:07,979 --> 00:49:09,689

But yeah, I did it over 10 years.

:

00:49:09,899 --> 00:49:10,709

I stopped

:

00:49:11,289 --> 00:49:12,369

Doing it because

:

00:49:12,939 --> 00:49:14,349

I was getting sick,

:

00:49:14,889 --> 00:49:15,159

and it

:

00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:18,099

at the, either from swallowing

the water or from the up

:

00:49:18,099 --> 00:49:18,549

and down.

:

00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:19,179

or whatever.

:

00:49:19,899 --> 00:49:21,879

and I thought, yeah, this

is not much fun anymore.

:

00:49:22,449 --> 00:49:22,869

But I missed

:

00:49:22,959 --> 00:49:23,019

Jeff: it.

:

00:49:23,169 --> 00:49:24,309

I can't believe it was ever fun.

:

00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:25,539

Four and a half miles across.

:

00:49:25,539 --> 00:49:26,474

the Chesapeake with a,

:

00:49:26,919 --> 00:49:27,129

Paul: It's

:

00:49:27,129 --> 00:49:27,909

a long way.

:

00:49:28,479 --> 00:49:28,959

That's a

:

00:49:28,959 --> 00:49:29,559

long way.

:

00:49:29,879 --> 00:49:30,299

Wow.

:

00:49:30,419 --> 00:49:30,779

Anyway

:

00:49:31,529 --> 00:49:32,539

So, Yeah.

:

00:49:32,539 --> 00:49:33,379

Try to stay busy,

:

00:49:33,379 --> 00:49:34,279

stay active,

:

00:49:34,329 --> 00:49:35,229

Lifting weights,

:

00:49:35,749 --> 00:49:36,739

Working on curls,

:

00:49:37,039 --> 00:49:38,119

Curls for the girls.

:

00:49:38,149 --> 00:49:38,479

Jeff: you go.

:

00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:38,849

Paul: There you go.

:

00:49:39,214 --> 00:49:40,924

George: Do you have a routine, a set

:

00:49:40,924 --> 00:49:41,584

routine?

:

00:49:41,764 --> 00:49:41,824

Yeah.

:

00:49:41,924 --> 00:49:42,854

what does that look like?

:

00:49:42,904 --> 00:49:44,134

Paul: if I stop working,

:

00:49:45,034 --> 00:49:46,389

say it's seven o'clock.

:

00:49:47,289 --> 00:49:48,279

the time I have with my

:

00:49:48,279 --> 00:49:49,739

wife which is treasured.

:

00:49:49,979 --> 00:49:50,339

George: Yes.

:

00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:52,299

Paul: Until maybe 10 30.

:

00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:53,229

We'll

:

00:49:53,229 --> 00:49:54,189

be up watching

:

00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:54,909

some

:

00:49:54,909 --> 00:49:56,109

crazy series.

:

00:49:56,499 --> 00:49:56,679

or

:

00:49:56,679 --> 00:49:57,549

movie until

:

00:49:57,809 --> 00:49:59,279

11 o'clock and turn the lights off.

:

00:50:00,179 --> 00:50:00,629

So

:

00:50:01,079 --> 00:50:02,369

my, I'm working out in the

:

00:50:02,369 --> 00:50:02,644

afternoon.

:

00:50:03,449 --> 00:50:03,479

Okay.

:

00:50:03,569 --> 00:50:04,079

Usually

:

00:50:04,739 --> 00:50:05,069

but

:

00:50:05,129 --> 00:50:06,269

to get it done early in the morning.

:

00:50:06,269 --> 00:50:07,914

would be without a doubt.

:

00:50:08,814 --> 00:50:10,164

First of all, getting

up early, has been hard.

:

00:50:10,164 --> 00:50:10,284

for,

:

00:50:10,284 --> 00:50:11,724

me in general.

:

00:50:12,054 --> 00:50:12,594

Particularly if you

:

00:50:12,594 --> 00:50:13,344

go to bed 11

:

00:50:13,804 --> 00:50:14,284

I'm getting up

:

00:50:14,284 --> 00:50:15,094

at six hours.

:

00:50:15,634 --> 00:50:16,354

I need more than that.

:

00:50:16,384 --> 00:50:17,674

particularly when I'm working out.

:

00:50:18,424 --> 00:50:19,734

You need more sleep if you're,

:

00:50:19,734 --> 00:50:20,664

pushing it pretty hard.

:

00:50:21,034 --> 00:50:23,314

and then at five o'clock in the

morning it's still dark out.

:

00:50:23,314 --> 00:50:24,834

and you're thinking you're

gonna go kick your own

:

00:50:24,834 --> 00:50:25,254

ass.

:

00:50:25,314 --> 00:50:25,794

Right Now

:

00:50:25,974 --> 00:50:26,334

George: Yeah.

:

00:50:26,364 --> 00:50:26,754

Paul: going back.

:

00:50:26,754 --> 00:50:27,174

to sleep.

:

00:50:28,074 --> 00:50:28,494

Come on.

:

00:50:29,394 --> 00:50:32,214

But yeah, but getting it

over with, getting up better.

:

00:50:32,244 --> 00:50:35,854

I got up at oh, dark, 30

this morning, with you guys.

:

00:50:35,854 --> 00:50:36,934

And to get on an early

:

00:50:36,934 --> 00:50:37,294

flight, I

:

00:50:37,294 --> 00:50:37,384

was

:

00:50:38,434 --> 00:50:38,584

Yeah.

:

00:50:39,484 --> 00:50:42,334

And I did that because

I didn't wanna leave.

:

00:50:42,334 --> 00:50:42,814

my wife

:

00:50:42,814 --> 00:50:43,264

last night.

:

00:50:43,849 --> 00:50:44,089

George: Right.

:

00:50:44,164 --> 00:50:44,524

You just,

:

00:50:44,799 --> 00:50:45,759

Paul: love her, Yeah.

:

00:50:45,759 --> 00:50:46,599

I wanted to be around her.

:

00:50:46,649 --> 00:50:47,939

yeah, exactly.

:

00:50:48,049 --> 00:50:48,769

But I got up early,

:

00:50:48,769 --> 00:50:49,189

and came out

:

00:50:49,189 --> 00:50:50,359

here and, I'll tell you it's a good way to

:

00:50:50,369 --> 00:50:50,729

start the

:

00:50:50,729 --> 00:50:52,379

day early, but you

:

00:50:52,379 --> 00:50:54,384

gotta go to bed early

'cause you need your Sleep.

:

00:50:55,284 --> 00:50:56,964

George: What's the key

to a successful marriage?

:

00:50:57,864 --> 00:50:58,224

Paul: Oh, I

:

00:50:58,224 --> 00:50:59,934

learned that after, it took me 20 years to

:

00:50:59,934 --> 00:51:00,289

learn that.

:

00:51:01,374 --> 00:51:01,764

It did.

:

00:51:02,334 --> 00:51:03,054

20 years

:

00:51:03,864 --> 00:51:04,554

just as a

:

00:51:04,554 --> 00:51:04,884

man.

:

00:51:04,884 --> 00:51:05,784

Just do what you're told.

:

00:51:06,684 --> 00:51:07,314

Jeff: I figured that was

:

00:51:07,454 --> 00:51:07,744

Paul: Yeah.

:

00:51:08,119 --> 00:51:08,569

look simple.

:

00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:09,049

There's a few

:

00:51:09,049 --> 00:51:09,739

reasons for that.

:

00:51:09,739 --> 00:51:10,009

Okay.

:

00:51:10,429 --> 00:51:11,959

I think most men would agree

:

00:51:11,959 --> 00:51:12,379

with me.

:

00:51:12,379 --> 00:51:13,309

That is the answer.

:

00:51:13,339 --> 00:51:14,239

Most men might

:

00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:15,109

not agree with me.

:

00:51:15,159 --> 00:51:17,289

Women are smarter than, we are.

:

00:51:17,799 --> 00:51:19,149

As it relates to matters of the heart

:

00:51:19,854 --> 00:51:21,924

And the home, hands down.

:

00:51:22,074 --> 00:51:24,384

We're Not even the same

league, not even the same

:

00:51:24,384 --> 00:51:24,564

league.

:

00:51:25,294 --> 00:51:25,444

That

:

00:51:25,444 --> 00:51:25,714

kind of

:

00:51:25,714 --> 00:51:26,344

intelligence.

:

00:51:26,344 --> 00:51:26,464

we're

:

00:51:26,464 --> 00:51:27,214

dealing with there.

:

00:51:27,664 --> 00:51:28,024

So

:

00:51:28,294 --> 00:51:31,294

chances are, if you just do what

you're told and they make all the

:

00:51:31,294 --> 00:51:32,764

decisions, you're gonna be better off.

:

00:51:32,764 --> 00:51:33,124

Anyway.

:

00:51:33,897 --> 00:51:34,887

It seems pretty basic.

:

00:51:35,097 --> 00:51:35,967

I was a math major.

:

00:51:35,967 --> 00:51:37,492

That's, I think it make some

:

00:51:37,747 --> 00:51:37,897

Jeff: of that.

:

00:51:37,897 --> 00:51:38,497

adds up for

:

00:51:38,522 --> 00:51:39,002

Paul: Exactly.

:

00:51:39,332 --> 00:51:39,542

Yeah.

:

00:51:39,722 --> 00:51:42,102

George: So how many years

are you celebrating?

:

00:51:42,652 --> 00:51:43,887

Paul: We just celebrated 35.

:

00:51:44,212 --> 00:51:44,752

George: 35.

:

00:51:44,752 --> 00:51:45,562

Congratulations.

:

00:51:46,312 --> 00:51:46,612

Paul: yep.

:

00:51:47,512 --> 00:51:47,872

George: Wow.

:

00:51:48,214 --> 00:51:50,799

Jeff: This has been a just

a wonderful conversation.

:

00:51:50,799 --> 00:51:52,089

I really appreciate you making time for

:

00:51:52,089 --> 00:51:52,329

us.

:

00:51:52,509 --> 00:51:53,199

It was an honor that you

:

00:51:53,889 --> 00:51:54,219

all honor

:

00:51:54,219 --> 00:51:54,699

that you said.

:

00:51:54,699 --> 00:51:55,089

Yes.

:

00:51:55,129 --> 00:51:56,329

I've learned a lot from you personally.

:

00:51:56,329 --> 00:51:58,219

We've been through the ups

and downs together and it's

:

00:51:58,219 --> 00:51:59,179

amazing how much we've learned.

:

00:51:59,179 --> 00:52:01,619

And from one another, you're

one of the true entrepreneurs.

:

00:52:01,949 --> 00:52:02,729

in our industry.

:

00:52:02,799 --> 00:52:03,159

And I'm

:

00:52:03,279 --> 00:52:04,689

Glad to hear you're not

going anywhere anytime.

:

00:52:04,689 --> 00:52:04,959

soon.

:

00:52:05,358 --> 00:52:07,488

No, a true honor to have you

here and I really appreciate

:

00:52:07,523 --> 00:52:08,763

Paul: you taking Thank you.

:

00:52:08,858 --> 00:52:09,518

It's an honor for mine.

:

00:52:09,518 --> 00:52:09,638

I'm so

:

00:52:09,638 --> 00:52:10,842

excited to share thanks for inviting me.

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About the Podcast

Breaking Down Boxes
Compelling Conversations with Successful Entrepreneurs in the Packaging Space
Breaking Down Boxes, brought to you by AICC, The Independent Packaging Association, gives you the story behind the boxes. Entrepreneurs share their trials and triumphs in authentic conversations filled with knowledge and laughter.

New episodes drop the first Monday of every month.

Visit us at https://www.AICCbox.org to learn how we help our members succeed.

About your hosts

Gene Marino

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Executive Vice President
Akers Packaging Service Group
Passionate about entrepreneurs building sustainable businesses.

Joseph Morelli

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Vice President of Sales & Marketing
Huston Patterson Printers
Passionate about professional growth and success.

Ox Box

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Ox Box is the official sponsor of Breaking Down Boxes.
Ox Box is strength you can depend on.